Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: BANDIT2 on January 12, 2014, 05:04:06 PM
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Background- made 2 x 100 ltr batches back to back and both went into my settling tank last weekend. All made with nice oil-2 stage-naoh-gpw-perfect 45/5 -WBD-bubble and settle. Nothing went wrong and nothing has changed from my usual process-same chemicals,oil......everything! shake up soap test was as perfect as that test can be.
The problem... I usually filter straight down to 1 mic via filter bags into my 60 ltr 'pump station' [barrel with pump and trigger nozzle on wheels] but the filter clogged very quickly.This filter bag had been used for the last lot of bio so I hung it up to drip back into the settling drum and got another [washed] one. I have 4 of these 1 mic bags which I wash and reuse and have been doing this for 5 yrs with no problems.The 2nd bag also clogged quickly as did the 3rd. So I then filtered 50 ltrs through a bed sheet clipped around the top of the pump station, had to replace the sheet 3 times to get the 50 ltrs through.
Tried to then run it through my last clean 1 mic bag filter and that clogged up too.
All 4 filters then went into the washing machine for reuse the next day [which is now today]. Meanwhile, [still yesterday remember]I filtered the 50 ltrs through J clothes which took ages, added 2 litres of rug and took a bottle sample of this for the doorstep sample, I left the fuel in the pump station overnight intending to refilter it the next day [this morning-Sunday]when the washed filters would be nice and dry.
This morning was a hard frost and the doorstep sample was perfect, however, when I tried to refilter, the filter clogged quickly again. I HAD to go out for a 30 mile round trip and the Landy tank was less than empty so I pumped 25 ltrs in, checked the spare filter was still under the seat ,chucked a tow rope in the back and confirmed that a mate would come and rescue me if needed LOL!!
Needless to say,after 10miles the filter starting blocking and I couldn't go faster than 40mph, a quick filter change and all was ok untill I got nearly back home and it started to clog again-its a coolent heated filterhead BTW.
The bio is sparkly clear, the water in the soap test is the same, I thought it was my bag filters best there best but this batch is reluctent to go through bed sheets and J clothes too.
Tis a mystery.....
I'll still be trying to filter this next year at this rate.
HMPE's????
can they be so small that they can't be seen?
I do have some around the side of the settling barrel but I've had loads worse and always take the bio from the center anyway with no problems.
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When you filter do you take the bio from the top or bottom of the tank? What is left on the sheet?
I get a couple of L of HMPE with most batches when I brew in winter but as I don't take from the bottom of the tank it doesn't block my filter The last 30L goes through a sheet and takes more than 24 hrs to go through. I can see the HMPE in the bio though, often as small balls. How long has your bio settled for?
My HMPE after a number of batches
(http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/dickjotec/b308b9bc00cf57cd530bbf011fe74395_zpsb4d359d1.jpg)
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Hi Dick, always from the top and centre of the drum.
Settled for 8 days.
I also put a doorstep sample of un-winterised bio outside last night and after the hard frost we had- that was pretty good too,just a small ammount of 'whites' in the bottom-
The stuff left on the sheets is like 'melted' vasoline or what I would expect melted vasoline to look like [he adds quickly to avoid any sexual misunderstandings]
Chris
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The stuff left on the sheets is like 'melted' vasoline or what I would expect melted vasoline to look like [he adds quickly to avoid any sexual misunderstandings]
Chris
Is it soft and clear? How much is there in the sheet? Can you collect some and warn it then see if it goes through a j cloth?
If you take the bio to room temp does it filter ok?
I have never had clear HMPE but it does sound like you have some in there. This is some other HMPE I have had.
(http://dpks.co.uk/work/HMPE.JPG)
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I can see how a gel like substance could block a filter instantly. A tiny amount of it could just coat the filter and block it solid. Much worse than particles. I had similar happen filtering oil, but that was a fine layer of wax. Filter was fine inside, it was just the wax stopping it.
Goodness only knows what it is mind.
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Well,this stuff is very thin on the sheets and did have a slight white colour to it I guess.Yes,very soft-can't check any further cos I chucked the sheets on the garden incinerater-they burnt really well too.
I never had this problem when it was -10 or whatever it was last winter or the harsh one the year before that.
Can hmpes be found throughout the bio thats been settled? I've only noticed them [ever] on the sides of the barrel,mainly at the top but the've never been a problem to me.
This 50ltr has been through a bed sheet and god knows how many J clothes but still blocked the truck filter which is heated too.
I wonder if I reclaimed too much meth on the WBD? think I may of got close to stoich but I don't know what this could do to the bio.
Maybe a 45/5 is worth doing on it to see if its altered in any way?
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I did a couple of threads about this waxing
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1585.0/topicseen.html
and
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1626.msg19194.html#msg19194
Think I have found a possible solution just trying it out on a new batch to make sure it works, may not be something people want to do though :-\
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Well,this stuff is very thin on the sheets and did have a slight white colour to it I guess.Yes,very soft-can't check any further cos I chucked the sheets on the garden incinerater-they burnt really well too.
I never had this problem when it was -10 or whatever it was last winter or the harsh one the year before that.
Can hmpes be found throughout the bio thats been settled? I've only noticed them [ever] on the sides of the barrel,mainly at the top but the've never been a problem to me.
This 50ltr has been through a bed sheet and god knows how many J clothes but still blocked the truck filter which is heated too.
I wonder if I reclaimed too much meth on the WBD? think I may of got close to stoich but I don't know what this could do to the bio.
Maybe a 45/5 is worth doing on it to see if its altered in any way?
A centrifuge would be your friend here.
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Were you doing titless and WBD last winter ?
I ask as this combination is known to produce far more HMPE's than other methods.
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May I venture ...
Were you doing titless and WBD last winter ?
I ask as this combination is known believed to produce far more HMPE's than other methods.
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OK then. Many who have used this combination have reported higher than normal levels of HMPE's.
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OK then. Many who have used this combination have reported higher than normal levels of HMPE's.
I'll second that, I gave up WBD quite some time ago because of high levels of HMPEs.
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OK then. Many who have used this combination have reported higher than normal levels of HMPE's.
I'll second that, I gave up WBD quite some time ago because of high levels of HMPEs.
I suffered HPME's in the summer with this method.
In my opinion anyone doing it in this weather is asking for problems.
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OK then. Many who have used this combination have reported higher than normal levels of HMPE's.
I'll second that, I gave up WBD quite some time ago because of high levels of HMPEs.
I suffered HPME's in the summer with this method.
In my opinion anyone doing it in this weather is asking for problems.
I'm not asking for problems.
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It appears that WBD has become like water washing, you either love it or hate it and any mention of it stirs up the debate and like water washing there are some who won't mention it now because of the negative attitude that ensues.
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I still WBD and so far this year have only seen HMPEs once in September.
But then I acid and water wash, added to which, this winter has been one of the mildest I can remember.
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yeah it's not got cold enough to see anything with my overdose, titless and wbd method but it's to be expected once temps go below freezing though, but hey just save up and use when it's warmer it's not rocket science.
They either cling to sides of the settling tank or drop to the bottom so easy to avoid them.
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yeah it's not got cold enough to see anything with my overdose, titless and wbd method but it's to be expected once temps go below freezing though, but hey just save up and use when it's warmer it's not rocket science.
They either cling to sides of the settling tank or drop to the bottom so easy to avoid them.
Eggs lakley.
Never been an issue for me either[utill now?] and I did WBD last 2 winters-
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Bit of an update-left it settling another fortnight-mainly because the Landy was poorly ;D-tried to filter another 50ltrs today and it went through a 1 mic baggie no problem :)
Temp is around the same as it was when the filter clogging occoured so all I can think is it was soaps which hadn't fully dropped maybe.
Anyway,alls good again and the failed Landy clutch turned out to be the slave and not a gearbox out repair as I feared.
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It's always a good day when the worst fears you have do not materialise.
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Two good results. I find the biggest ache with problems is not knowing, I always worry about the worst case outcome. Sometimes it is but often not then it is a wonderful feeling!!