Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: Julian on April 28, 2013, 07:08:55 PM

Title: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on April 28, 2013, 07:08:55 PM
I thought Wombles were supposed to tidy up.

I've just had one round who dumped 200 ltrs of soap in my back garden!

A very quick test showed that recovering bio from it, as with my soap batch, may be possible.  I'll need to do some further tests.

Whilst on the subject of soap ... has anyone taken samples as the methoxide/ASM is being introduced and shortly after the introduction and noticed anything about the bio in the early stages?
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: nigelb on April 28, 2013, 07:27:54 PM
Why...what have you discovered?
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Head Womble on April 28, 2013, 07:29:59 PM
I am tidying up, my shed, it's much less cluttered now.

The problem with us Wombles is, we pick up things that other leave behind, but ac cationally we leave these things elsewhere.

It did look promissing that you'll get good bio from it so what are you complaining about.

I don't know, you give someone something for nothing and they just moan about it.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on April 28, 2013, 07:36:01 PM
Why...what have you discovered?

I've discovered a paradox ... Wombles fly tip.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Tony on April 28, 2013, 08:58:10 PM
Why...what have you discovered?

I've discovered a paradox ... Wombles fly tip.

You've completely upset my world-view.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on April 28, 2013, 09:11:46 PM
Why...what have you discovered?

I've discovered a paradox ... Wombles fly tip.

You've completely upset my world-view.

What's more they encourage you to conduct pointless tests which line expensive lab equipment with the biodiesel equivalent of two part epoxy!

Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Head Womble on April 28, 2013, 09:54:00 PM
Why...what have you discovered?

I've discovered a paradox ... Wombles fly tip.

You've completely upset my world-view.

What's more they encourage you to conduct pointless tests which line expensive lab equipment with the biodiesel equivalent of two part epoxy!

I take it it didn't come out of your 10/90 flask then, oops.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: K.H on April 28, 2013, 09:59:25 PM
Why...what have you discovered?

I've discovered a paradox ... Wombles fly tip.

You've completely upset my world-view.

What's more they encourage you to conduct pointless tests which line expensive lab equipment with the biodiesel equivalent of two part epoxy!
Dont worry they are an endangered species

(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/Funnies/WOMBLE_zps7487acf1.jpg)
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on April 28, 2013, 10:00:41 PM
Why...what have you discovered?

I've discovered a paradox ... Wombles fly tip.


You've completely upset my world-view.

What's more they encourage you to conduct pointless tests which line expensive lab equipment with the biodiesel equivalent of two part epoxy!

I take it it didn't come out of your 10/90 flask then, oops.


See ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Tips_and_wrinkles_2#Cleaning_a_3.2F27_conical_flask
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Tony on April 28, 2013, 10:06:53 PM
Isn't acetone the standard way of cleaning lab equipment?
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on April 28, 2013, 10:15:59 PM
Isn't acetone the standard way of cleaning lab equipment?

Not sure, but I'll add it to the page ... IPA removed the Wombles 2 part epoxy for me.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on April 28, 2013, 10:18:25 PM
Done that ... need a page on acetone now!

Any volunteers?
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Head Womble on April 28, 2013, 10:23:31 PM
Isn't acetone the standard way of cleaning lab equipment?

Not sure, but I'll add it to the page ... IPA removed the Wombles 2 part epoxy for me.

I always wash my flask out with IPA between very use.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: julesandtash on May 01, 2013, 08:11:31 PM
I put mine in the dishwasher the other day - it seemed to survive OK and came out squeaky clean
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on May 01, 2013, 08:17:28 PM
I put mine in the dishwasher the other day - it seemed to survive OK and came out squeaky clean

All my bio stuff normally goes in the dishwasher too, but this stuff was quite tough.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Rotary-Motion on May 03, 2013, 06:12:46 AM
i put my clamptop oil barrel bed sheets in the washing machine, i recycle thoses too, used the same sheets for a couple of years - can i be in the gang

 ;D
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on May 03, 2013, 08:08:11 AM
Just so long as you promise not to dump soap in my back garden!
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Head Womble on May 03, 2013, 01:38:20 PM
Just so long as you promise not to dump soap in my back garden!

Have I been banished from the gang now then  :'(

Have you done any more tests on that soap, sorry, oil ?
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on May 03, 2013, 06:27:37 PM
Just so long as you promise not to dump soap in my back garden!

Have I been banished from the gang now then  :'(

Have you done any more tests on that soap, sorry, oil ?

Not yet ... I've had to work solid for 8 days now with more next week! (getting fed up with it, this work thing isn't all it's cracked up to be).  I'll try and find time to play a little more once I get the Mono pump fixed, or I might pipe in a bigger Mono or maybe give Heater a try, decisions, decisions!
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: julianf on May 04, 2013, 08:32:20 AM
Julian,

Ive tried to find the details on your previous solution, but i think theyre burried in a thread - can you point me in the direction?

I think they may be handy when i brave the barrel sitting in my gaurage...
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on May 04, 2013, 09:16:32 AM
No big secret.

It was based on comments made by Paul Carrington a while back ... you simply heat the soap with about 15-20% gycerine to circa 65°C and mix.  let the glycerine settle, separate and then process normally.  First batch I did I used glycerine from an ASM batch which had had no methanol removed, but I can't remember what I did with Wombles soap!  We were running the test whilst making a new batch and I think the glycerine was taken mid process, so it was likely to be meth rich too.  I'll do some more tests including glycerine from a 7% water washed batch and post results. Can you remember, Mark?

Julian, if in the mean time you have a soap batch that you can play with, it would be good to have corroborating experiments.

Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: julianf on May 04, 2013, 09:29:12 AM
Ive got 200 ltrs of liquid that i know, when i demeth it, will turn to jelly.  It has the glycerol in suspension also.

Its fully fluid at present.

I was considering trying to mix it with some plain wvo.  I was wondering if the bio would mix with the wvo, but that the glycerol would not - and then that the meth may have greater afinity for the glyc than the wvo / bio mix.

But i have not tried anything just yet.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: julianf on May 04, 2013, 09:31:26 AM
I would imagine that mixing the soap with glycerol recovers bio from it, rather than converts anything chemically, right?

Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: therecklessengineer on May 04, 2013, 02:17:39 PM
Ive got 200 ltrs of liquid that i know, when i demeth it, will turn to jelly.  It has the glycerol in suspension also.

Its fully fluid at present.

I was considering trying to mix it with some plain wvo.  I was wondering if the bio would mix with the wvo, but that the glycerol would not - and then that the meth may have greater afinity for the glyc than the wvo / bio mix.

But i have not tried anything just yet.

This worked well for me:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1023.0.html (http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1023.0.html)
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on May 04, 2013, 08:25:25 PM
I would imagine that mixing the soap with glycerol recovers bio from it, rather than converts anything chemically, right?

Honestly no idea ... if I remember correctly, just about the same amount of glycerine came out as went in.  I tried a 3/27 on Wombles soap after the suggested treatment.  That resulted in the gunk which stuck to the flask and showed no signs of being bio at all. But it appears to process into bio.

I did wonder when I converted my soap batch how I would know if the resulting liquid was actually bio, but the car's running fine on a whole tank of the stuff, so I guess it must be.

Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: julianf on May 04, 2013, 09:36:12 PM
Ive got 200 ltrs of liquid that i know, when i demeth it, will turn to jelly.  It has the glycerol in suspension also.

Its fully fluid at present.

I was considering trying to mix it with some plain wvo.  I was wondering if the bio would mix with the wvo, but that the glycerol would not - and then that the meth may have greater afinity for the glyc than the wvo / bio mix.

But i have not tried anything just yet.

This worked well for me:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1023.0.html (http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1023.0.html)

I had 4 fluid oz (whatever they are!) of jelly in a beaker, taken from the hot reactor when the batch was on.  I scooped it into a saucepan, and heated it on the oven (yes, i had my exit strategy pre-planned).  It bubbled at about 60c (laser thermometer) for a little while, but not much at all.  I took it to 95c, and then poured it back into the beaker.

It now looks like wvo does, when you have a container with some dark sediment, a bit of whites, and goo wvo - and then you shake it.  Ie brown and murkey.

Ill leave it overnight and see what happens!
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Head Womble on May 04, 2013, 11:03:57 PM
Can you remember, Mark?

I think you drew some out of a 20 or 25L drum, but I could be wrong, we were chatting about all sorts of things at the time.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Julian on May 04, 2013, 11:45:29 PM
Can you remember, Mark?

I think you drew some out of a 20 or 25L drum, but I could be wrong, we were chatting about all sorts of things at the time.

OK, so that was probably first stage glycerne which would have been meth rich.
Title: Re: Bloody Wombles!
Post by: Rotary-Motion on May 05, 2013, 08:13:11 AM
not bio rich ah hehe  ;D