Author Topic: Gonna start water washing.  (Read 3799 times)

Offline nigelb

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Re: Gonna start water washing.
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2022, 11:18:34 PM »
Just re read your post Dave
..still no idea what r/h.means. But,  I too got results below the recommended ppm of soap but only after a few washes with water......never after a prewash. Only ever settled once..
slow, (NaOH)....never again.

Offline RichardP

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Re: Gonna start water washing.
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2022, 08:25:21 AM »
Nige - r/h - relative humidity

Offline Tony

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Re: Gonna start water washing.
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2022, 09:52:27 PM »
It was as if the vibration of the bubbles were encouraging more glyc to fall.

Having seen how bouncing some bio around in a container in the boot seems to encourage a little extra soap to drop, I have long pondered sticking a speaker in a plastic bag, dangling it into the bio and playing some "phat beats" to encourage it to drop faster.

Offline BANDIT2

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Re: Gonna start water washing.
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2022, 11:33:53 PM »
Bit of Flat Eric.
That's going back a bit. ;D
Running [if I get enough veg] Defender 200TDI and Winnebago Lesharo (now gone)Range Rover P38 ,and a space heater on home made bio.

Offline neisel

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Re: Gonna start water washing.
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2022, 11:52:40 AM »
I have never used any other method than water washing in my BD making process. Now it takes a 7-ish% pre-wash & 4 more 15 litre water washes (v. occasionally 5) to get a clear pass on 140L of BD. I use one machine for the entire process from beginning to end. I always use cold water for all water washing. You can do this ww process at any temperature & I usually do it at ambient.

What I've learned:

I suppose it's obvious but always bear in mind it's the process that creates the problems, so be scrupulous in following the basic rules & you will eliminate many of the problems rather than create them.

I used to try to make a batch of BD too quickly, sometimes in one long day. Now I have broken the process up into several days.

Day 1 -  Drying the oil is very important. I get my oil from 2 sources & they decant from their fryers the morning after they used the oil for the last time the night before so it's pretty water free. I crank the machine with 140L of WVO up to about 70 degrees & leave it for 2 hours then drain off what little water there is. I then turn on the pump to get the WVO in the pipes, pump etc into the body of the machine & leave it for another 2 hours, then drain. There's usually no water coming out at this stage.

Then Stage 1 followed by Stage 2

DO NOT over dose with chemicals, if anything be conservative on Stage 1 & accurate in your calculations for Stage 2. Doing this will save on chemicals & save an enormous amount of time & frustration in sorting out overdoses, emulsions etc. Ask me how I know this.

I do the 7% pre-wash & I usually do it immediately after stage 2 without stopping or checking my BD is fully converted. I've done this process so many times I know it's 100% (or as near as dammit) converted. The thing to be careful of here to avoid an emulsion is the speed in which the pre-wash water is introduced. Too quickly & you risk an emulsion so take your time. I introduce the water for the pre-wash slowly through the venturi, the same way & speed I introduce methoxide, & once it's safely in I open all the valves & pump wash with the same ferocity as I use when converting feedstock to BD. It can take 7 or 8 minutes to add 15L of water. I run the pre-wash for 15ish minutes full blast & then shut the thing down for the night.

Day 2 -  Water washing day. After sitting overnight following the pre-wash I drain away a lot of potential issues when I drain the pre-wash water. In the next wash I pour the 15 litres in the top of the machine at a gentle rate (not just dumping it as fast as I can) while it runs at about 40% speed, then when it's all in I close the lid & crank it up to max. After that the risk of emulsion seems to be eliminated & I can just dump 15 litres straight out of a bucket into the machine.

I run each ww for about 20-25 mins & then leave it a couple of hours to settle.

After the 3rd ww I test & can usually tell whether I'll be done with 1 or 2 more washes. When I have a pass with a clear separation & clear water in a jar after shaking vigorously & settling I let the converted & now clean BD sit in the processor for a day or 3 to allow the water to drop out, then I dry it by heat.

I've often wondered if just how dirty their BD is is a concern for people who don't water wash. Seeing the stuff that comes out in my water washes I have to say that even though it can be a time consuming PITA I wouldn't make BD any other way.

I do not make BD from about October until the beginning of May, making enough in the warmer months to last me through the colder ones. I NEVER have any glyc, soap, water or anything else in the bottom of the 25L containers I use to store made fuel, even if they've been sitting in my fuel reserve for 6-8 months.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 02:00:04 PM by neisel »

Offline dgs

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Re: Gonna start water washing.
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2022, 09:05:41 PM »
Neisel, what a good post. There are a few points that I don't totally agree with but it obviously works for you, good to see a nice long technical post.

So, not being critical at all but just a couple of comments.

You don't mention glyc washing at all, just heating to remove the/some water. Suspended and dissolved water in oil can be very high, much higher than in bio. Glyc washing will reduce the dissolved water to <500ppm.

When you say you add your water for the pre-wash slowly there is no need, really there isn't.  It may look as if you have  made an emulsion but as long as your mix of  glyc and water is roughly 50/50 it won't emulsify. For your batch size of 140 litres you need about 3 litres of glyc and the same of water. (so don't waste/wet your precious glyc that you can use for pre treating)

Pure Glycerine has a sg of 1.4 and our glycerol has a sg of 1.2 so when mixed 50/50 with water it still has a sg of 1.1 As bio has a sg of about 0.9 the wet glyc will always settle (no matter what the mix looks like when the water is just 'slung'in).
FOC water tests by Sandy brae or Karl Fischer for forum members.

Offline Tony

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Re: Gonna start water washing.
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2022, 03:25:12 PM »
Bit of Flat Eric.
That's going back a bit. ;D

Haha - can you imagine the neighbours wondering why there are faint, watery tones of Flat Eric on repeat for hours at a time from the garage? :D

Offline Tony

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Re: Gonna start water washing.
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2022, 03:33:59 PM »
I've often wondered if just how dirty their BD is is a concern for people who don't water wash. Seeing the stuff that comes out in my water washes I have to say that even though it can be a time consuming PITA I wouldn't make BD any other way.

I'm under no illusions that my "settled only" washed bio is less than perfect and that water washing it would improve the quality.

So mine is "good enough for me", and the odd bit of red stuff in the fuel filters and whatever lines the fuel system doesn't seem to really cause any grief.

I had a Bosch VE on the Delica that got damaged by bad commercial bio from the early days (wrecked the tolerances on the lift side of the pump as far as I can tell) and after I swapped it out and took it apart, from what I remember it only showed minor discolouration of the governor mechanisms and pump innards - and that was after many years of use on unwashed bio.  I do remember finding some red jelly goo in the tank though, which blocked the pickup strainer at one point (until that strainer was unceremoniously dumped in the bin).