Reducing emissions using water injection.

[dgs]

Interesting but you refer to Hydrocarbon readings yet they are not measured on diesels, the measurement is one of smoke density or particulates.
[/quote]

I did say 'assuming'  Steve, as the emissions sheet isn't specific I assumed it was H/C's

[dgs]

UPDATE; I've fitted a unit to my Dispatch van and it has made a big difference. Particulate (note that Steve) reading on the emissions was 0.02. It pulls better and I think the economy seems to be better although I haven't checked it.

Like others that have fitted these things I can't seem to get the pipe to bubble below about 2500rpm ( I took a small compressor with me for the MOT and bubbled it with that)

I've just had delivered a small 12v aquarium bubbler which I am going to mount under the bonnet and connect to an additional pipe into the water/meth container so it bubbles at speeds up to 2500rpm.

I will fit the original 'in' pipe with a non return valve so the little pump doesen't push all the mix out.

[Julian]

Been reading this with interest.

If I've understood the system right a small stream of intake air is bubbled through a methanol/water mix.  The amount of mix taken into the combustion chamber (dampening the small air stream) must be tiny.

Having searched water/methanol injection it seems that commercial system spray the mix into the air intake, so would increasing the amount of mix improve things still further?  I'm not thinking spraying, but some years ago tacky little ornaments were available fitted with ultrasonic devices which created a fog which flowed from a pool of water … remember them?

How about fitting one of those in the bottom of the jar with the two pipes entering the ullage space so you're sucking the fog into the combustion air?

[nigelb]

Something like this Julian:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reptile-Fogger-Reptile-Mist-Maker-Halloween-Mist-Maker-Fogger-Single-LED/273069203244?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D68fc6b17b7e943a398afeaa7a7b80680%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D273069203244%26itm%3D273069203244&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

Or this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Car-Auto-Home-Room-Steam-Humidifier-Air-Purifier-Freshener-Aroma-Diffuser/263914563450?epid=8022249658&hash=item3d7288a77a:g:v68AAOSwyCZayxuJ

[Julian]

Yup, that's the kind of thing.

I had a little Google after I posted and the first one to which you linked was the type of thing I was looking at.  Unfortunately most that size seem to be 24v, but that's not an insurmountable problem I guess.  I did find them quite a bit cheaper direct from China though.

[dgs]

The second link seems good at 12volts. 25mls per hour is more than my present unit uses. Since fitting it I've used about 20 litres of fuel and the unit has used no more than 40mls of water/meth. I'm sure it could be used in conjunction with the little air pump.

Good idea Julian.

[photoman290]

another option for misting may be a portable nebuliser. battery operated but could work off 12v via  voltage dropper.

[Chug]

Interesting stuff, I might have to try it, made me remember that years ago a local transport firm my uncle worked for had Bedford TK's and Ford D Series trucks and one of the guys had a bean tin with a pinhole in it wired over his exhaust to drip water and make steam around the engine, said it ran better when loaded!

[ginger payne]

Hi all my name is ginger Payne. I have spent over 50 years building and using racing engines,motor cycles and cars.water injection is not a new thing it was used on planes back in1940.The test I did was to see if this could help lower emissions at low speeds.
The result was very encouraging. Driving in London is a slow boring disaplin the average speed is under 9 MPH, last week kids back at school 2hours 15 mins to travel 18 miles. This means a lot of the time we are stationery. A few new cars have stop/start to help in these situations. EGR can not be used under 1500rpm,putting rubbish in the combustion chamber at low revs =no power bad running. Water/methanol injection adds power and reduces emissions at low revs. This could be a great help in London traffic. I will be doing more testing soon and will post my results. Thanks for all the information keep up the good work.

 
         

[Julian]

Hi Ginger,

Welcome to the wiki and forum.   Well done on an excellent bit of experimentation.  I still can't believe that such a small quantity of mix can make such a relatively massive difference to performance and emissions.

As you say water injection has been around for many years.  I think I've mentioned it here on here before but many years ago I was involved in tests to emulsify heavy and light fuel oil for use in ship engines (the ones the size of a semi-detached house).  It seemed to work well often giving 5% fuel saving, in those days no one was really concerned with emissions!  I remember we ran some tests on the works emergency generator and had that running on 15% water all be it a bit roughly.

To this end I've always wondered about the efficacy of completely dewatering bio.  Based on the tests we ran, to my way of thinking if water's not dropping out of the fuel to cause corrosion issues it may burn better containing traces of water.

[dgs]

Nice to see you on here ginger. I know a lot of the guys are very interested in your experiments.

As Julian mentioned it is amazing how such a small amount of vaporized water/methanol can make such a big difference.

Stephen (bbb Stephen) came to see me yesterday. He runs a golf pd on SVO and uses a commercial water inj system (aquamist or similar) mainly to stop ring gumming. He doesn't really notice the difference between the unit working and switched off as regards economy or power.

Also to do the journey 1 way to Chugs he would have to stop and fill up his reservoir after only half the distance (roughly 5 litres of mix for 125 miles) Wheras we are talking 60mls for over 50 miles.

Is something going on here that we don't fully understand.

You are correct about the more efficient running on wet bio Julian. The trouble is the wet fuel is travelling through the pump and injector system which isn't good. The water/meth has to be introduced via the air intake system.

[Glycer-rides]

You are correct about the more efficient running on wet bio Julian. The trouble is the wet fuel is travelling through the pump and injector system which isn't good. The water/meth has to be introduced via the air intake system.

Dave, we need someone with a 'last legs' motor they're going to scrap to test this 'aqueous bio' theorem.

[Julian]

Been down the pub tonight so I asked my mate with a PhD in chemistry and having brushed off his stock answer of "that's chemical engineering … I don't know about chemical engineering" he was of the opinion that given the bubbling set up, it's likely that the air streaming through the mix is more likely to entrain methanol vapour than water vapour.

Don't know if that's any help and I suppose it could be tested by checking the SG of the mix before and after use.

[ginger payne]

Been down the pub tonight so I asked my mate with a PhD in chemistry and having brushed off his stock answer of "that's chemical engineering … I don't know about chemical engineering" he was of the opinion that given the bubbling set up, it's likely that the air streaming through the mix is more likely to entrain methanol vapour than water vapour.

Don't know if that's any help and I suppose it could be tested by checking the SG of the mix before and after use.

[Julian]

Ginger ... I think you omitted your response to the post.