Bio-Powered No-Titration Calculator

[willbuild]

I have found that if I multiply the catalyst amount by 1.5 then I get a clear pas on the second stage. If I use the amount given by the calculation I always fail to get a clear pass.

[dgs]

I have tried to titrate after stage 1 many times (or as i now call it the enhanced glycerol pre-wash) and it can't be done as the oil is already alkaline. This is exactly what Manfred is saying, and lets face it, if after adding stage 1 chemicals the oil was still acidic there would be something seriously wrong.

Bio Boy, The base amount of catalyst you will need after stage 1 will vary depending on your processor/pump efficiency. From recent tests I have done using the tam 120/eductor I have found my base amount to be around the 6.7/6.8 gms KOH region. Whereas using a processor with a weak pump can give results of over 8 to 10 gms. These figures are without adjusting for KOH being only 90%.
So every processor has it's own base amount. When you calculate the amount of unreacted oil for your stage 2 chemicals you will get to know what the base amount is for your set-up from experiance.

The base amount was calculated years ago by tests using new oil and thats where the 5.0gms NaOH/7.0gmsKOH was first derived from.
Again from recent testing I have done, new oil still titrates, nor is it dry. Maybe thats why my testing figures are below base levels.

[dgs]

I have found that if I multiply the catalyst amount by 1.5 then I get a clear pas on the second stage. If I use the amount given by the calculation I always fail to get a clear pass.

That seems a massive o/d of catalyst, doesn't it lead to making masses of soap?

[Jamesrl]

I have found that if I multiply the catalyst amount by 1.5 then I get a clear pas on the second stage. If I use the amount given by the calculation I always fail to get a clear pass.

That seems a massive o/d of catalyst, doesn't it lead to making masses of soap?

The 1.5 x is only for stage 2 so a relatively small amount, apart from that all h2o will have been removed in stage 1, the only h2o present in the second stage will be that generated in the methoxide.

[Bio-boy]

Sorry for any confusion guys. What I am trying to put across is if it is possible to utilise the results of the 10/90 test following the stage 1 process to identify the quality of the WVO. I don't mean titrating it following the 1st stage.

For example:

My most recent batch......

Stage 1 - 130L WVO 20.8L Methanol 910g KOH resulted in 2ml fallout (10/90 test)

Stage 2 - 5.2L methanol 182g KOH result clear pass 10/90 test.

So the total KOH used for the whole process is 1092g which if using the titration process rather than the no-titration process would equate to 1092/130=8.4

Therefore would I be right in thinking that the oil would have titrated at 8.4-7(base)=1.4

[Jamesrl]

No, you're over analysing a rather simple process.

If you're getting a crystal clear final 10/90 why worry how or why it happens, just stick the bio in y'jam jar and enjoy the benefits.

[willbuild]

I have found that if I multiply the catalyst amount by 1.5 then I get a clear pas on the second stage. If I use the amount given by the calculation I always fail to get a clear pass.

That seems a massive o/d of catalyst, doesn't it lead to making masses of soap?

I don't think so.  I only multiply by 1.5 if the fall out is below 1ml on a 10/90.

[Bio-boy]

No, you're over analysing a rather simple process.

If you're getting a crystal clear final 10/90 why worry how or why it happens, just stick the bio in y'jam jar and enjoy the benefits.

I'm just curious and wishing to develop my understanding further.

I see to have mastered the no-titration process. Clear 10/90 pass today, virtually no soap and only 3 washes required to achieve the perfect 50:50 test.

Can't wait to get my new plant operational.

[willbuild]

I do 100 ltr batches, I use 6 grs naoh per ltr with 5 litres of meth in glycerol wash then 6 grs per ltr and 7ltr of meth on 1 st stage then around 3 for 2nd stage with 4lts of meth
Total of around 15grs per litre and 16% meth. Have recently been titrating at beginning of process and its between 20 and 25.
I can only assume that by doing in stages the amounts needed are less.

[Bio-boy]

I do 100 ltr batches, I use 6 grs naoh per ltr with 5 litres of meth in glycerol wash then 6 grs per ltr and 7ltr of meth on 1 st stage then around 3 for 2nd stage with 4lts of meth
Total of around 15grs per litre and 16% meth. Have recently been titrating at beginning of process and its between 20 and 25.
I can only assume that by doing in stages the amounts needed are less.

Your oil titrated at 20-25!!! 

[dgs]

I do 100 ltr batches, I use 6 grs naoh per ltr with 5 litres of meth in glycerol wash then 6 grs per ltr and 7ltr of meth on 1 st stage then around 3 for 2nd stage with 4lts of meth
Total of around 15grs per litre and 16% meth. Have recently been titrating at beginning of process and its between 20 and 25.
I can only assume that by doing in stages the amounts needed are less.

Your oil titrated at 20-25!!! 

Yes, some of us have to use oil that titrates at very high levels.
willbuild, the big problem with processing oil that titrates so high with a conventional base/base process is the loss of the FFA's to soap and water, which in your case will be 10 to 13%. However it's probably better (convenient) for you to do this than start to go down the route of acid esterification.

Was it you that increased your yield by some 20% doing the enhanced glycerol pre-wash?

It's a well known fact amongst more experianced brewers ( don't mean that to sound flippant) that the more reactions you do, the less chemicals you will use. Hence my min KOH usage experiments where I completed a batch with only 3.5gms/litre added KOH but had to use 7 stages to do it.

[willbuild]

Yes it's improved by at least 15%, have done 4 batches using this method.
I have a batch of wvo settling that I know is high that am thinking of trying  caustic striping using the chart in one of your posts next week.
50% of the oil I collect is high but it use to be 75% so I'm heading in the right direction