Author Topic: Centrifuge photos for Knighty  (Read 17869 times)

Offline knighty

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 02:16:52 AM »
Julian, did you cash yours and then turn it, so you didn't have to take so much off with the lathe ?

Offline Julian

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 08:23:57 AM »
It was a long time ago, so memory of the exact method has faded a little.  I certainty cut the discs on the lathe and possibly tidied up some of the ali. soldering on it, but I didn't skim it all over.

I just built it as accurately as I could and took great care in clamping it all square before soldering.  Bending was done on a set of home-made rolls made from scaffold tube.  Given that it was never balanced, it's remarkably stable.  There's a rough spot as it runs up to speed, but once up and running there's virtually no vibration.

Balancing a cast bowl (which would certainly be necessary with a casting) could easily be done on a couple of parallel knife edges, provided the design had a place where metal could be drilled out.
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Offline knighty

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2015, 05:30:44 PM »
does a 250mm bowl, 150mm tall, with a 50mm lip around the top sound about right ?

(need dimensions to get price for making one)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 05:32:34 PM by knighty »

Offline Julian

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2015, 06:46:12 PM »
G force calculator here ... http://www.endmemo.com/bio/grpm.php

I recon pretty much any size will work.  But as Dick says, the bigger the dia the larger the G force.  But if you slow the through put so the liquid stays longer in the bowl, it will have the same effect in a smaller diameter.  Think cubie of WVO left for a week compared to one left for six months.

Jim was looking into having some cast a while back, what happened, Jim ... did they not have any black aluminium?

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Offline knighty

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2015, 10:33:11 PM »
nice calculator :-)

250mm bowl at 6000rpm is 10,000G

so probably too much :-o
(motor/berings might last longer if I go slower)


apparently simple centrifuge's machines produce just short of 1300g

at 250mm bowl diameter it only needs a ~2500rpm


actually... maybe I should be using the diameter of the opening at the top ?
150mm needs 2800rpm for 1300g


numbers aren't as bad as I thought :-)

Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2015, 10:35:46 PM »
does a 250mm bowl, 150mm tall, with a 50mm lip around the top sound about right ?

(need dimensions to get price for making one)

The bowl diam and height is somewhat irrelevant when making a fuge as g force is directly related to bowl rpm and radius.

The single most important thing is getting the entire rotating assembly dynamically balanced.

Offline Dickjotec

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2015, 11:07:39 PM »
nice calculator :-)


actually... maybe I should be using the diameter of the opening at the top ?
150mm needs 2800rpm for 1300g


numbers aren't as bad as I thought :-)

As Jim says it is the radius that is used in most calcs for G. Use the radius of the vessel, not the radius of the hole in the top plate. When deciding on the top hole diameter don't forget that you have to get your hand in to clean out the crud, or an appropriate tool. The depth of the lip determines two things, I think, the amount of time the oil is in the fuge and the amount of crud it will contain. The former is also dependant on the oil rate of flow in.
If you make the top plate with a lip over an inner vessel that houses the bearings the clean oil can easily be collected in an outer vessel. (Hope that makes sense)
Bio since 2007  running Delica and Octavia

Offline knighty

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2015, 11:28:10 PM »
The bowl diam and height is somewhat irrelevant when making a fuge
as g force is directly related to bowl rpm and radius

erm....

Offline knighty

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2015, 11:33:10 PM »
top hole vs bowl diameter tho...

the oil builds up in outside of the bowl until it's level with the lip/hole at the top so it can overflow out...

won't the oil in the centre be under less G force than the the oil against the side of the bowl ?

either way, with a 250mm bowl and a 150mm opening, there'll be plenty of room for crud, and the rpm needed is in a reasonable range to get to with a standard motor and inverter... nothing special needed apart from the bowl!

Offline knighty

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2015, 11:44:12 PM »
250mm diam
150mm hight

7.4litres total volume

100 diam
150 hight

4.7litres (volume of hole in middle)

2.7litres of oil in the bowl when it's full/running

so at 1200g thats about.... 32tons of force pushing out on the bowl ?
(ignoring the different g force at different distances from the wall to be safe)


have a missed a decimal place somewhere or is that right ?
(I used 1kg pre litre of oil to make it simple)


I think I put diameter into the calculator instead of radius earlier on...

at 125mm diam, for 1200g it needs to spin at 2930rpm



better make the bowl a bit thicker than I originally thought...

my 150mm hight might be a bit optimistic too...

Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2015, 11:54:24 PM »
You must take the total weight of bowl crud and oil into account, the greater the RPM the more stored kinetic energy you'll have to allow for when bulding the outer case as you need to try and contain it should the fixings fail.

Offline photoman290

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2015, 12:18:07 PM »
could you use a gas bottle for the bowl?

Offline knighty

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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2015, 12:41:34 PM »
Ooooo! I'll 'ave to start looking at making some casting patterns.

Offline Julian

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Re: Centrifuge photos for Knighty
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2015, 04:37:15 PM »
Ooooo! I'll 'ave to start looking at making some casting patterns.

You were looking at that several years ago ... feck you're slow!
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