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[greasemonkey]

Suicide rates are alarmingly high in the farming community, at the best of times.
I forget the actual statistics, but it's a good bit higher than what is considered normal.
I was born and bred in a farming community, and I live here now.
We missed the fallout from Chernobyl, by quite a few miles.
The foot and mouth was another episode that wiped out generation old flocks and herds. That struck around here, and I remember that very well.

[therecklessengineer]

Since we've strayed OT into the bigger picture here I wonder if someone can explain something that has never really made any sense to me.

We here politicians & economists talking about growth all the time & how it is a good, even a necessary thing.

Why?

I don't have an adequate grasp to really explain it well. This post does a good job though: https://wellsharp.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/escaping-the-growth-imperative/

[Rotary-Motion]

im with eon (apparently don't charge for having payment meters) just sent me a cheque for a 10 squids, thank you eon.

[Tony]

*again, from memory, but i think there were only about 2 satellites, ever, that had full reactors on board.  And i think one of them came down over Canada.  The soviets seemed obsessed with it.  Did you know they even had a nuclear powered (as in decay, rather than fission) lighthouse?

Quite a few, including good old Voyager, were powered this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator#Nuclear_power_systems_in_space

I believe Russia has many more than just one lighthouse powered this way - apparently old thermoelectric generators aren't unknown to turn up at scrapyards so must be fairly prevalent.

However, all said and done, the dose we receive from potassium-40 in things like bananas exceeds our current dosing as a result of Chernobyl and atmospheric nuclear testing combined (by a factor of 40).

Another XKCD on the subject:

https://xkcd.com/radiation/

[julianf]

Voyager was a powered by Plutonium-238 decay, which, as you say, is common.  Likewise, as Bob commented, its (Pl238) half life is only 87.7 years.

Fission reactors, however, were mainly a soviet thing, but there were more of them than i remembered.  Ive just looked up the number to be 31, inc the one that came down over Canada previously mentioned (Kosmos-954)

I think there is an abandoned Russian core in decaying orbit currently, but i cant find the details of that one right now.

Ill need to comment on the second half of your post later, as, obviously, its not as simple as the information above.

[GedsJeep]

is now the time to tell you about the russian nuclear miniaturisation program?

and the 63 suitcase nukes that are still classed as "missing"?

[nigelb]

is now the time to tell you about the russian nuclear miniaturisation program?

and the 63 suitcase nukes that are still classed as "missing"?

They're not in Liverpool are they Ged...Scouse mafia and all that

[GedsJeep]

i bloody hope not. they were unstable at the best of times.

they need regular servicing to keep them going.

or they just decay.

and no one quite knows what happens next......

and with the dissolution of the old ussr there are quite a few trained people with no jobs....

its not beyond the realms of doubt that well over half are still serviceable. and almost certain that most of them are in the wrong hands

sleep tight....

[therecklessengineer]

Deaths due to radiation (in the UK): Zero.

Deaths due to radiation Fukushima: Zero (maybe 1). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster_casualties

Deaths due to Chernobyl: 41 direct, but could be up to 60. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster

Deaths due to air pollution (in the UK): 28,000/year http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26973783


Admittedly, I've taken a very superficial view at the stats, but the theme is pretty clear.

[greasemonkey]

Deaths due to radiation (in the UK): Zero.

I'm not very concerned about it myself, but I wonder how the authorities judge deaths due to radiation.
The local Landlady died of Leukaemia. She was told that the only thing that caused that particular type of Leukaemia was Nuclear fallout, and it took twenty or more years to develop.
She was in Manchester in 1986. Died about six years ago.
She was never knowingly exposed to any other kind of radioactivity.

[julianf]

The figures you give are fearfully reminiscent of the tobacco giants  : (

Deaths due to Chernobyl: 41 direct, but could be up to 60. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster

United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) assesment of Chernobyl death toll - 62 persons
with the footnote "'the vast majority of the population need not live in fear of serious health consequences from the Chernobyl accident"

Greenpeace assessment - 93,000 with the footnote "in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine alone the accident could have resulted in an estimated 200,000 additional deaths in the period between 1990 and 2004"

62 vs between 93,000 and 200,000

Both of the above, you may argue, have agendas.

A WHO paper, written at around the same time as the Greenpeace report gives a number of 4000.


In reality, no one will ever be able to prove a figure.  Again, like the tobacco industry.

[GedsJeep]

Deaths due to radiation (in the UK): Zero.

i know that is incorrect.

[julianf]

My father is currently surviving two, unrelated, cancers.
Noone will ever know why he rolled the wrong number on the dice.  Twice.


He, however, has wondered if it was the time he spent sitting on top of crates in RAF cargo planes, back when the south pacific testing was going on.

There will never be any proof either way. 

Everyone that you know has experience of cancer.  Radiation increases cancers.  Except, of course, when that radiation is part of an UNSCEAR document.



A banana is 40x more dangerous than Chernobyl and all the atmospheric tests put together.  (i know that's not exactly what you said! ; )

Lake Karachay is an open air lake in the former USSR.  A 1990 study found that standing on its shoreline would give a does of about 600 Roentgen in an hour.  That's just over 5.5 Sieverts.  The xkcd file lists 4 sieverts as a 'usually fatal dose'

Karachay was confined (slightly) until the lake started to dry due to a drought, and the silt started moving.  But, even though its probably the most polluted place on the planet, it wont come under the 40x statement.  At least not until its contents find themselves in your grandchildrens milkshakes.  But someone might, i guess, get to cleaning it up before then?


B30 (i got the number wrong before) also wont contribute to the figures yet.  And may never do so - except whatever leaked into the ground water this morning.  Neither will B29 (the second most dangerous place in western europe)

Maybe it can all be buried in a hole and will never become part of the mentioned figures.  Realistically, it wont all be though, in the same way Karachay wont.  Or Fukishima, TMI, etc. etc.


Most, most of the time is the best anyone can hope for.  Not all, all of the time.


The nuclear age was 73 in December, and this year will see the 70th anniversary of the trinity experiment.  73 years of creating stuff that, unless you are one of the few that believe UNSCEAR, is actually pretty grim.  Too grim even to clear up when you leave it lying about.


Again, im not telling you what to do - its not like that would get anyone anywhere!

[neisel]

"Would you like to deactivate notification on this topic?

Yes - No"

Yes.

My thread has been hi-jacked.

[GedsJeep]

"Would you like to deactivate notification on this topic?

Yes - No"

Yes.

My thread has been hi-jacked.

no it hasnt....


its mutated.

told you to be afraid of the nukes.....