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[lozzzzzz]

Thanks for your encouragement Richard. 

This is my second batch.  The method I used was exactly the same as for my first batch (for the first two stages) with the only difference being after that when I added the extra methanol.  I altered one variable so it wasn't guess work. 

I'll take your advise on board though thanks.  I thought it was very wet oil when that result came out. 

In my first batch I followed the same procedure, i.e. heating, leaving overnight, draining 5L, no distilling the water out and there was no soap drop out at all.  I guess that was a lucky one then!! 

Dick,

I'll not see it till Wednesday night now, but it'll be the first thing I do when I get back to the folks house  



When I pulled the bubbler out I could feel the little feet I put on the bubbler ring were semi stuck in the gloop at the bottom   I guess it'll need cleaning out before too long

I will defo give drying the oil a go next time. 
Regarding the reacting time. I took samples at intervals when I did my first batch and found the reaction was all done after 8mins, so I was being generous and rounding up to half an hour for the second stage. 

[RichardP]

I'm an advocate of using the bare minimum of chemicals to do the job, and in doing that reducing the soap produced. I will use 3.5g/l NaOH on S1 and 4g/l for the remainder on S2, and generally get 80%+ conversion on S1. The last few batches I've done I used no more than 750g NaOH on 165L batches. I don't titrate, but the oil consistently titrated around the 2 mark. Total meth usage is now under 15%, this is from getting a good pass baseline for my oil and tweaking the chemicals downwards.

Lozz admits he can't say whether adding more methanol or the additional pumping time gave the increased conversion, so he cannot say after just two batches that the reaction stalled after 15 mins, it may have continued if processed for longer, even though it may be a beast of a pump - it depends on the agitation within the processor. You can't presume that just because it's a big pump then it will convert in 15 mins.

What I was saying is that you need to get good passes then tweak your processing times/chemical amounts so you maintain a good pass without overdosing and producing a shed load of soap or glyc.

[willbuild]

If I take a sample at the end of process my 50/50 would be the same as yours. What i do is an acid wash in the processor then two or three water washes, then transfer to settling tank and bubble for 12 to 24 hours.
after 12hrs of stopping the babbler i get clear water at the top of tank and clear from the bottom 24 to 48 hrs later.
When i say clear, I can shine a laser through it and not see the trace in the water.

[RichardP]

Regarding the reacting time. I took samples at intervals when I did my first batch and found the reaction was all done after 8mins, so I was being generous and rounding up to half an hour for the second stage.

Thing here is if you under dosed with methanol, which you did at 10%, then the reaction would stall fairly quickly, so get the chemicals at a decent level then check the reaction times.

[lozzzzzz]

You make a good point Richard, i have contracted myself. I will try it again at intervals with a bit more meth in stage one ib the name of getting to know the processor

[lozzzzzz]

Oooops, I meant contradicted  


I'm really getting into this soap production now, and as a nice little bi product there is some bio diesel I can use to fuel my car

I've failed to dry the oil properly on thursday night.  Both relays over-heated and I'd only got to 80 degrees C, there was some water condensing out but it was by no means finished.  As predicted there is plenty of soap in it. 

I'll not be doing it next time.  I fully appreciate the need to get it dry now. 

I put 175L in the processor, condensed for a while at 80C then had to go   Saturday morning I drained off 15L so started the process with 160L

Put 18L of meth and 880g of NaOH this go me to 60% bio (340% soap )

I then put 7L of methanol and 340g NaOH, this got it to 95%

Last lot was 3L methanol with 20g NaOH, B100

I then spent a long time condensing plenty of meth out. 

It came out of the processor a little cloudy, and was followed by plenty of froth. 

I also reacted for well over half and hour each time. 

On the plus side I did make a lot, I've ended up with 155L ish this time, whereas its been more like 135ish with the last two. 





This took from 6.20am till about 3pm, but I was showing a friend the equipment and we chatted for ages. 

I've only just got enough at the moment, and its taking so much of my time to make.  I'm pursuing B100 in the hope of putting in the girlfriends PD car.  The pug I have and the MR2 TDI I'm making will be fine with B80+

I'm needing to brew up every 2 -3weeks to keep me on the road, when I get enough oil the GF will need fuel making every 6-7 weeks. 

Lessons learned:

• Stop making B100, I need so much more than the GF and I can make B90ish so much quicker.  (less stages, less meth with a great recipe Dick gave me, and therefore no need to condense the meth out)
  
• When I have enough oil for her too, I'll make B100 every now and again and use a separate settling tank. 
  
• DRY THE OIL, I have to spend more time drying and less time processing
  

I'm glad I tried making B100 its all been valuable learning, but I'm really glad I went for a pre PD engine to go in my MR2, this is going to save me so much time making fuel. 

That's all folks. 

[Dickjotec]

When you can get enough oil to let is settle for a few weeks and pour off the top for general bio you should be able to dry it easier then every few batched do a full dry on the bottoms that have been saved up. The bottoms ie fats will make good summer bio with the tops making good winter bio (it will have a lower temperature cloud point). A plastic cone tank makes the settling, or at least separating the parts, easier.

[lozzzzzz]

I do really need to get on and find one of those. 

[willbuild]

I thought that b100 was all bio with no dino and say b80 was 80% bio and 20% dino and not what amount of the batch that has been converted, or am i missing something?

[Dickjotec]

I thought that b100 was all bio with no dino and say b80 was 80% bio and 20% dino and not what amount of the batch that has been converted, or am i missing something?

Technically you are correct, I think, but if a mix of say 80% fully reacted bio was mixed with 20% veg then it would only be 80% bio diesel. Correctly Lozzzz should call it 100% reacted or zero fallout but I think we all understood what he meant?

[willbuild]

most of my wvo titrates above 20, would it be advisable to use as the  added 20% in my 1.9d peugeot partner

[Mickindashed]

Hi Lozzzzz, reading this what stands out to me is how much experimentation you are doing all at the same time. I suggest that you run some batches with a more basic approach and don't start trying to optimise the process until you can reliably complete the process!

The percentages that work for me are 15% of wvo volume for the total methanol, then split the total methanol 80/20 between the first and second dose. Then 8g of KOH per litre of wvo in the first dose and whatever the dropout from the first stage indicates for the KOH in the second dose.

If I were you I'd run the process for longer too. 15 minutes is very quick by most peoples standards. Your mega pump might be able to get the job done that fast, but time is just another variable in the mix and your process obviously isn't working yet, so why not run for an hour per stage while you get everything else worked out? That would be the easiest way to tick off one potential problem. If you get reliable success with longer processing then you can start reducing the time - but don't mess with any other variables at the same time or you won't be able to be sure which one did what.

[RichardP]

^^^^^^  Just what I was saying 3 weeks ago.

[lozzzzzz]

I agree I'm being a bit too experimental but "obviously isn't working" might be bit strong.  I've been doing over 90 miles a day for nearly 4 on bio, its saving me a fortune.  I'd say its working!  I got to the point where there is no veg oil left and I know exactly what I've done wrong to get lots of soap. 

I just need to dry the oil properly before I process.  The first batch I did on a recipe Dick gave me worked a treat.  I had dry oil (by fluke that time) and 91% IIRC, and it took very little time too. 

[Tony]

Any of the seasoned brewers will tell you that dry oil is absolutely critical to success.  Can't stress it enough   You can get away with all sorts with dry oil.