Author Topic: CBA process.  (Read 18144 times)

Offline Julian

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2013, 09:56:30 PM »
I should say this thread has rather drifted, but it's all to do with reducing ASM quantities.  First off I had several batches where I could get a complete reaction using bases of around 3.5-4, whilst ignoring the titration value.  I suspect on those batches, the oil would have titrated low if I'd bothered to check.

In emulating that process on other oil I've come across these "phases" of conversion.  Realising that jelly seemed to be a function of too little catalyst, I just carried on adding and ended up with a good conversion.

So yes, you've pretty much got it, except the oil was as dry as I could get it.  Dried with a condenser at over 100°C ... I haven't yet tried it with knowingly wet oil.  Could be worth a jam jar size batch to try.

If you remember when you were round fly tipping your soap, I'd done some experiments with soap and glycerine.  That produced a substance that didn't give a 3/27 result at all, but was clear and liquid and would process normally into bio.  I recon I'd hit the second phase in the photos above using the catalyst remaining in the glycerine ... all same glycerine washing.

I've done some jam jar tests on your soap and grossly over dosing with catalist pushed it to reasonable bio.  So I'll shortly bite the bullet and try a whole batch slowly dosing until I get the phase changes and temperature rise.

Are you going to ask for it back now?  Don't forget you'll have to convert it with the next couple of weeks.

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Offline Julian

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2013, 10:03:01 PM »
Oh, I should have said that in getting the first stage to drop glycerine, I used about half of the 2nd stage catalyst, so the second stage wasn't really a normal 20% but more like 10%.

One other thing I've been trying is throttling the pumps when processing.  Having seen the vid of the guys with the gear pump, I've tried throttling the combined output of the Leo and the Mono to 50 psi whilst still having a small flow.  Don't really know if this has made a difference, but the second stage converted in 20 mins.  I guess I should really try one thing at a time!
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2013, 10:25:09 PM »
Oh, I should have said that in getting the first stage to drop glycerine, I used about half of the 2nd stage catalyst, so the second stage wasn't really a normal 20% but more like 10%.

One other thing I've been trying is throttling the pumps when processing.  Having seen the vid of the guys with the gear pump, I've tried throttling the combined output of the Leo and the Mono to 50 psi whilst still having a small flow.  Don't really know if this has made a difference, but the second stage converted in 20 mins.  I guess I should really try one thing at a time!

If you had a decent 'ductor you wouldn't need to throttle back output to increase the inpump mixing.

Offline Julian

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2013, 10:28:24 PM »
I was trying to create cavitation after the valve!
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Offline Head Womble

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2013, 11:20:40 PM »


Are you going to ask for it back now?  Don't forget you'll have to convert it with the next couple of weeks.

No I'm not asking for it back, I'd rather the batch was saved and the method reported on.
I just don't have the time to mess about with it now.
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2013, 09:53:28 PM »
I've just completed another batch using remarkably low ASM levels.

Total consumption of ASM was equal to a base of 2.88 with 16.5% methanol

!00ltr batch, 1440ml ASM and 16.5ltr of methanol

A 180lt batch would equate to 2592ml ASM and 29.7ml methanol of which I would expect to recover 9lt from the bio only.

Offline Julian

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2013, 10:04:28 PM »
Are you seeing the "gel" stage at all?
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2013, 10:11:09 PM »
Are you seeing the "gel" stage at all?

I don't see any stage 'cause it all happens in the reactor, once I've put the WVO in to the Drying tank I see nothing 'til the bio comes out into me cubie ready to fill the jam jar.

Offline Julian

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2013, 10:21:48 PM »
Well, get a proper jam jar and take frequent samples during processing ... you may be surprised.

PS I've given Mike your email address, so he should contact you soon if he hasn't already done so.
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2013, 10:29:03 PM »
Well, get a proper jam jar and take frequent samples during processing ... you may be surprised.

PS I've given Mike your email address, so he should contact you soon if he hasn't already done so.

I take my sample in a good quality Whisky Tumbler, nothing as common as a jam jar.

Been talking to Mike via email all afternoon, could be making the trip Saturday.

I've bet him I can bore him to death before he to gets me, reckon I'll win.

Offline Julian

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2013, 10:37:35 PM »
Really nice, interesting chap ... I mean Mike, not you!
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2013, 10:46:52 PM »
Really nice, interesting chap ... I mean Mike, not you!

Thanks MATE.

Offline Tony

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2013, 11:02:12 PM »
Hey, we learnt everything from you Jim, you should be proud!

Offline thewormman

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2013, 08:53:20 AM »
I've just completed another batch using remarkably low ASM levels.

Total consumption of ASM was equal to a base of 2.88 with 16.5% methanol

!00ltr batch, 1440ml ASM and 16.5ltr of methanol

A 180lt batch would equate to 2592ml ASM and 29.7ml methanol of which I would expect to recover 9lt from the bio only.

How much of the 16.5% used was reclaimed and was it used in stage 1
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Offline Jamesrl

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Re: CBA process.
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2013, 10:51:30 AM »


How much of the 16.5% used was reclaimed and was it used in stage 1

I measure out the ASM add ALL the reclaimed from last brew then top up with virgin, approx 9% on this batch.

BTW stage one produced an 84% conversion.