Bosch pump need urgent advice

[endorfin]

Posting here as well due to the restricted access on VOD.

I had someone swap a Lucas pump for a Bosch (supplied by me) on my Citroen BX 1.7TD XUD.

Very knowledgeable chap, everything went smoothly, cambelt, waterpump, injectors and pipes and pump. Started it up and it ran, but wouldn't rev. It seems to be a problem with the throttle mechanism on the pump, pushing the lever has no effect.

The guy has run out of time and is unable to help me any further, I can't really complain as he didn't charge for the work and it's not his fault the pump turned out to be faulty, but it leaves me high and dry as I'm now stuck in North Wales.
Has anyone had any experience of a Bosch pump failing in this way? When you move the mechanism you can feel a sort of resistance halfway along. Do you know if it can be fixed or is it very specialised?

The other option is to get another pump and I can swap them over now that everything is in place for Bosch and it's still easily accessible.

Hopefully can get an answer before the forum goes down again!

[Tony]

Hi chap you might be able to get this guy to post his pump to you?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-BX-1-9TD-spares-or-repair-PERFECT-WORKING-ORDER-/321090432591

[Head Womble]

I'm sure I read about someone else having this problem,
and from memory they had taken the lever off and put it back in the wrong position,
I could be completely wrong but it may be worth a shot.

[Huntman40]

Have a look at this, is will give you an idea of what goes on inside, I have made the assumption that a citroen BX uses a bosch VE piump

http://306oc.co.uk/forum/thread-79.html

I would assume the governor is to blame

[Rotary-Motion]

first impression i get is as you did a major refit it may have air in the pipes / system, hence no revving... sometomes takes abit to pull through...

i have done this convertion twice now, couple other things to check is did he move the 3x injection pump locating / holding screws round to the next position on the mounting plate before fitting? lucas 3x studs are in the wrong place for a bosch. (move studs about an inch over) to next holes position.

also have you got the fuel in / out in the right place? for a lucas they will be at the wrong ends of the pump. so need to be swapped round...

did you lock the crank behind the starter motor before lucas removal? aswell as the camshaft locking bolt?

was the bosch pump locked off with 2x bolts to hold position for swapping? or was it free? could be 180 out (although not sure on this) the position it needs to be at cant be held by hand due to hydraulic action inside.

but it sounds like a pump failiure, was it working when removed?

did you connect waxstat? this can alter the tone / running

[Head Womble]

Paul, you cant get the pump 180° out, as long as all locking pins are in (crank, cam and pump) it'll be lined up.

[Rotary-Motion]

Paul, you cant get the pump 180° out, as long as all locking pins are in (crank, cam and pump) it'll be lined up.

if all locks are in fine before action, but as long as pump cant be out 180 thats kool, as i wasnt sure on that part...

although if i remeber to swap pumps the pulley has to come off for removal from mounting bracket, so would need to locate bolts after fitting back in.

i have removed bracket once with pump still fitted and another time pump only, pump only needs studs moved round.

[endorfin]

first impression i get is as you did a major refit it may have air in the pipes / system, hence no revving... sometomes takes abit to pull through...

i have done this convertion twice now, couple other things to check is did he move the 3x injection pump locating / holding screws round to the next position on the mounting plate before fitting? lucas 3x studs are in the wrong place for a bosch. (move studs about an inch over) to next holes position.

also have you got the fuel in / out in the right place? for a lucas they will be at the wrong ends of the pump. so need to be swapped round...

did you lock the crank behind the starter motor before lucas removal? aswell as the camshaft locking bolt?

was the bosch pump locked off with 2x bolts to hold position for swapping? or was it free? could be 180 out (although not sure on this) the position it needs to be at cant be held by hand due to hydraulic action inside.

but it sounds like a pump failiure, was it working when removed?

did you connect waxstat? this can alter the tone / running

Yes it was all done correctly, the guy who did it was very experienced, from over on the XM forum, has done lots of these. The car runs perfectly, just won't rev when you move the control lever, it does seem like a mechanical problem.

I bought the pump off ebay for £1 with no description or history so could have been faulty. It was poorly packaged so could have been damaged in transit?

alski off VOD has offered me a pump off a 1.9 Xantia, going to have a look at that in a moment, am I right that a non turbo pump can't be used on a turbo engine? Anyone know if the control lever can be removed to investigate the problem, maybe swap the parts over?

[Rotary-Motion]

i vwouldnt think a non turbo would be good for a turbo, maybe different injector pressures to start with... like lucas are 130 bar or something and bosch are 175bar if i remeber rightly...

sorry not stripped a pump.

[Tony]

You can run a non-turbo pump in a turbo system, but obviously you don't get the boost (fuel economy will be great though!).

It is possible you could swap the pump tops over to get the boost compensator, but the opportunity for cacking it up would be present.

It does sound like your £1 pump has already been fiddled with by someone.

Incidentally Olivier had his bosch pump turbo compensator off and took the control rod out that goes down into the pump.  When he put it back together it had resistance to the throttle arm movement and wouldn't rev.

The solution was to hold the throttle open when inserting the control rod back into place.

I'll ask him to post about it here as maybe this is what is up with your pump.  In which case it'd be an easy fix.

[Head Womble]

Nigel make sure the Xantia pump it from an early car without EGR,
as the latter ones have electronic timing advance and will never be able to set properly (I made this mistake myself).

Non turbo Xantia's have a lucas pump I believe.

[Huntman40]

Re injector pressures

the lucas ones are 125bar if i remember correctly. they will work with a bosch pump but you will have to retard the timing.
the bosch ones are 130 bar for the N/A and 175 bar for the TD engines in my experience.

if the engine starts and ticks over properly then the fuel and timing are fine.

I would have to assume that someone has taken the top off the pump and not slotted the governor back into the cradle. upon reassembly.

and stay away from the semi ECU models as mentioned above.
Ideally you want a pump with only one wire for the fuel cut off solenoid

[endorfin]

Mark

It seems the pump I've got from Alski is a semi electronic one, it's got armour on it. Does this mean it's a no go?

Also the Bosch pump that has been fitted, I think may also be a semi electronic with armour already removed, it's gone two electrical connectors and a load potentiometer at the top.

Would this explain the problem I've been having?

I'm in the process now of removing the armour of the new pump I got, am I wasting my time?

[greasemonkey]

ARe you trying to run her on veg or pump diesel?
It may well be the pump, but I would try to eliminate every other possibility before I came to that conclusion.
Get a feed of pump diesel going directly into the pump to start off with, then see what happens.

Some vehicles can be utter swines to bleed, and if your on veg, your adding another potential problem.

[Huntman40]

you have nothing to loose. take the top off it and examine