Author Topic: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's  (Read 13323 times)

Offline nathanrobo

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2013, 11:47:31 PM »
Oooooo! a bit of Dave jar voo there Nathan.
Sorted, i take it your using your phone again Nathan ;D

Thanks! Just 1/2 asleep! Got up at the crack of 6:30 this morning!

Offline nathanrobo

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2013, 06:06:26 PM »
Does this shed any light?  you need to page down a bit - "biodiesel test descriptions"

http://www.biodieseltesting.com/tests.php

The couple of things that I picked up on where:

1. Mono's and Di's are classed as Gycerin (I wasn't aware of this)
2. Can be in the free and bonded form

Quote
Free & Total Glycerin: Perhaps the most important test for biodiesel is the measure of glycerin content. The key reaction in biodiesel production, transesterification, involves converting oils and fats to fatty acid methyl esters (FAME). Glycerin is the major byproduct and is higher in density and more polar than the FAME. Glycerin may be present in free form, and bonded, (mono, di and triglycerides). Measurement of both is necessary to determine how the conversion reaction proceeded.
For producers: high glycerin content indicates the reaction has not proceeded to completion, or your driver and /or catalyst is weak (wrong concentrations).
For Distributors/End users: high glycerin may separate out in storage, plugging pumps and filters. It can also contribute to dirty injectors, thus causing poor combustion conditions.
unquote

Is this the brown stuff that some have seen settle out?  Could it be what we get through fuging?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 06:22:04 PM by nathanrobo »

Offline K.H

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2013, 09:00:43 PM »
Nathan here is the creating page

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Creating_pages

Any questions just ask away and one of us should be able to help

Offline nathanrobo

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2013, 09:10:55 AM »
Thanks Keith.  Up to my ears in mud this morning (skip's just arrived - got to fill it before others do).  I'll get onto it later.

Offline nathanrobo

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2013, 08:10:35 PM »
Thanks to Nathan i now have a centrifuge, it will be a while before i have time to set it up tho  :-[

Keith

I was wondering whether you've managed to set up and get some results???

Not having made fuel for a while, I've had my stock out settling in steel drums. I'm in the process of fuging the drum that's been settling the longest (since Oct or Nov).  Anyway the first session has produced a full creamy cake as below and I reckon another decent cake will come out too.

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y363/nathanrobo/waxcake3monthsforming.jpg[/img]]

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y363/nathanrobo/waxcake3month.jpg[/img]]
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 08:24:12 PM by nathanrobo »

Offline Jamesrl

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2013, 08:15:19 PM »
Das some serious fat Nathan, from WVO I assume.

Offline nathanrobo

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2013, 08:22:37 PM »
Das some serious fat Nathan, from WVO I assume.

No, it's wax from bio made in Oct or Nov (can't remember exactly) and left in a 205 out in the cold through the snow and frost etc.

The other drums that weren't left as long, produced a cake although the fuel looked bright and there was no cloudy stuff settled to the bottom.  Interestingly this drum, left out longer did have a bit of cloud that had settled out.  Seems that it was suspended in drums left out just a few weeks but eventually settled after around the four month stage.

Similar to the previous stuff I got out this melts at 44 deg c and then firms up at 41 ish deg.  Each time you reheat it and cool it, it seems to get firmer.

Offline Tony

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2013, 04:31:35 PM »
Interestingly this drum, left out longer did have a bit of cloud that had settled out.

Had this drum been previously 'fuged?

How effective is 'fuging at preventing the formation of solids if the temp drops after the fuel was 'fuged?

Similar to the previous stuff I got out this melts at 44 deg c and then firms up at 41 ish deg.  Each time you reheat it and cool it, it seems to get firmer.

When you heat a solid sample and melt it all, then re-cool, does the whole lot go solid, or is there a layer of liquid on top (perhaps trapped bio?).  How long does the solid take to re-form - is it immediate on dropping below 41C or does it take a few cycles outside?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 04:36:33 PM by Tony »

Offline nathanrobo

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Re: Centrifuge to remove HMPE's
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2013, 07:31:39 PM »
Interestingly this drum, left out longer did have a bit of cloud that had settled out.

Had this drum been previously 'fuged?

How effective is 'fuging at preventing the formation of solids if the temp drops after the fuel was 'fuged?

Similar to the previous stuff I got out this melts at 44 deg c and then firms up at 41 ish deg.  Each time you reheat it and cool it, it seems to get firmer.

When you heat a solid sample and melt it all, then re-cool, does the whole lot go solid, or is there a layer of liquid on top (perhaps trapped bio?).  How long does the solid take to re-form - is it immediate on dropping below 41C or does it take a few cycles outside?

Tony ref the first question, I can only guess based on logic (needs a bit more experimentation).  But it kinda makes sense that if this stuff melts at between 45 - 50 degs, there can only be so much of it in the fuel, as bio will freeze at a certain temp, but then melt as it comes below it's freezing point.  This stuff behaves very differently. 

My guess is that it probably takes something like -4 to -6 deg (?) for a period of time for it all to form, but once it's formed and filtered out.  The slight caveat to that view is the one drum that produced more than the rest, maybe 30% or 40% overall - the update to the last photo posted was that a 2nd session with the fuge produced no more waxy stuff.

The other noticeable thing is that after the wax comes out the fuel appears to have a lower viscosity even at very cold temps.

As to the other question, the high melting point stuff, all goes solid after melting then cooling. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 07:34:14 PM by nathanrobo »