Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: nathanrobo on February 10, 2013, 04:48:25 PM
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Been discussing my new shed and want to make sure that I include anything that could be useful.
The objective is to have an area that remains immaculately clean, have all the facilities that might be useful
- Power
- Water
- heating run off GCH - dual coned (jacket) processor
- Tiled, bunded floor
- Cavity insulated brick / block walls
- Polycarb roof
- French doors for plant access - large processor
- DG window for extra light
power cable, water, copper for heating etc will go down 4" pipe with draw wires. Overall size 5mtrs x 4 mtrs probably. What did I miss that can't be put in later?[/list]
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Sink preferably with drainer (if you want one, I have a lefthanded bowl and a half unit with drainer ... yours if you can arrange collection) and therefore obviously drainage.
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I think the most important is power - lots! Make sure you cable appropriately for at least two immersions and pumps running at once, as well as plenty of strip lighting :)
I've also added a dusk to dawn light outside the shed's door, I can't tell you how useful that has been.
I guess an ethernet cable would be nice in case you ever want a webcam keeping an eye on things, or some form of remote control - though that could easily be added later.
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I think the most important is power - lots! Make sure you cable appropriately for at least two immersions and pumps running at once, as well as plenty of strip lighting :)
I've also added a dusk to dawn light outside the shed's door, I can't tell you how useful that has been.
I guess an ethernet cable would be nice in case you ever want a webcam keeping an eye on things, or some form of remote control - though that could easily be added later.
Thanks Tony, the ethernet and external light are easy ones. The power amperage is more of a challenge... I have a 16 amp outlet in the garage (shed will be about (50 ft or more away), I don't think that's not enough juice. The house has a consumer unit and the ring main is divided into the left hand side on one circuit and the right hand side of the house on the other circuit. Getting a fresh supply from the consumer unit will mean taking up a lot of floor boards. But maybe that's the only way forward :_(
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Sink preferably with drainer (if you want one, I have a lefthanded bowl and a half unit with drainer ... yours if you can arrange collection) and therefore obviously drainage.
That could be good! Not sure bout drainage... legality or distance to the nearest drain, just outside the back of the garage.
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Sink preferably with drainer (if you want one, I have a lefthanded bowl and a half unit with drainer ... yours if you can arrange collection) and therefore obviously drainage.
That could be good! Not sure bout drainage... legality or distance to the nearest drain, just outside the back of the garage.
On the legality font, you may well need planning permission and building control for what you're describing anyway.
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Sink preferably with drainer (if you want one, I have a lefthanded bowl and a half unit with drainer ... yours if you can arrange collection) and therefore obviously drainage.
That could be good! Not sure bout drainage... legality or distance to the nearest drain, just outside the back of the garage.
On the legality font, you may well need planning permission and building control for what you're describing anyway.
Yep, need to check that... got an extension underway & that's under building control.
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I have a sink with running hot and cold water in mine - invaluable.
I also have a dishwasher (the old one that was in the house when we moved in - when I fitted a new kitchen I was allowed the old one).
It is great for washing all the glassware, sieves and everything else that gets manky. I even take out the top drawer and put my collection drums in from time to time - gets them lovely and clean.
A nice flat surface to work on would be a good idea - you are bound to get a clogged pump or something that needs putting down and working on.
Something else I have in mine which I find invaluable is compressed air (the compressor lives under the sink). There are thousands of uses for compressed air from getting methylate and methanol out of drums to clearing blocked pipes and even drying items. Just dont try using it to dry your biodiesel (ask bio-rich-time-poor about that one).
I would certainly agree on the power thing, a decent sized feed is a must.
I have a 40A (9 KW) supply into mine fed through 10sq.mm cable
But, above all else, and something I would swear by having recently had necessity to use it, is a Fire Extinguisher
I have even considered a couple of those automatic dry powder ones that you can hang from a hook over items to protect them
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Just dont try using it to dry your biodiesel (ask bio-rich-time-poor about that one).
Don't dismiss the idea out of hand! It works far better than a venture when the ambient humidity is low.
However my recent experience must bring into question the efficacy of using an aquarium pump, as many do, in humid conditions.
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I have a sink with running hot and cold water in mine - invaluable.
I also have a dishwasher (the old one that was in the house when we moved in - when I fitted a new kitchen I was allowed the old one).
It is great for washing all the glassware, sieves and everything else that gets manky. I even take out the top drawer and put my collection drums in from time to time - gets them lovely and clean.
A nice flat surface to work on would be a good idea - you are bound to get a clogged pump or something that needs putting down and working on.
Something else I have in mine which I find invaluable is compressed air (the compressor lives under the sink). There are thousands of uses for compressed air from getting methylate and methanol out of drums to clearing blocked pipes and even drying items. Just dont try using it to dry your biodiesel (ask bio-rich-time-poor about that one).
I would certainly agree on the power thing, a decent sized feed is a must.
I have a 40A (9 KW) supply into mine fed through 10sq.mm cable
But, above all else, and something I would swear by having recently had necessity to use it, is a Fire Extinguisher
I have even considered a couple of those automatic dry powder ones that you can hang from a hook over items to protect them
I thought 10mm Sq would do the job, the armoured cable that I have isn't 10mm, so I've have to get some. Looking at it i'll need to get a cable put into the consumer unit through floorboards to the garage, then out in armoured.
The sink with h & C is a must, as I want to wash out stuff, including containers. I've got a spare compressor that I could site behind the shed in a box and pipe in. The fire - extinguisher gonna be useful if I ever get a visit from someone official looking - what do you think an automatic one would cost? Ref the pumps, I've 3 x 110lpm pumps from Glenn, a couple of Stuart pumps, compliments of steve for dewatering and processing. Assuming a couple of pumps on the processor itself, I was thinking about being able to isolate each on the pipework so that if a problem occurs mid batch, I can carry on. The processor is likely to be 400 - 450 litres in stainless (waiting for tank prices at the mo).
Rather than the 3 tank set up I previously had, there will only be a dewatering straining tank and the processor for reacting, washing and drying (venturi). Polishing / dispensing will happen in the garage (i'll be able to spray bar dry and push through polishing drying pots for final dry here).
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You will also need a kettle, mug, milk & coffee.
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Good point! Not to mention a cupboard for vodka
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Mine is 400 litre stainless - one of the 'Whywaste' tanks that were going around a while back - cost me all of £75 and it is a solid and corosion free as the day I got it.
All of the fittings that penetrate the skin are stainless and I welded them in with stainless mig wire to keep the corrosion resistance.
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I don't think Bertle will mind me saying, but I'm waiting for a quote. Whatever I do, I'll need to get on with it as I haven't made a batch since November and feedstock is beginning to build. Probably good till the middle of March though.
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Have you checked the price of polycarb lately? Your going to need good stuff on the roof, to support snow when it comes. Its eye wateringly expensive. Triwall is reasonably insulating, but not as good as a couple of inches of kingspan or fibreglass.
I'd say put a solid roof on, out of corrogated, or whatever, and insulate it well.
I painted the inside of my shed with very bright white kitchen and bathroom paint. The difference it makes to the light is unbelievable, its like having another striplight in there.
By insulating the roof, it will make it a lot nicer to work in when it is pouring with rain. You will need earplugs under polycarb, coz of the racket it makes.
If you rgoing to put a concrete floor in, yu may as well put two inches of kingspan under the concrete. it will make a huge difference.
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Have you checked the price of polycarb lately? Your going to need good stuff on the roof, to support snow when it comes. Its eye wateringly expensive. Triwall is reasonably insulating, but not as good as a couple of inches of kingspan or fibreglass.
I'd say put a solid roof on, out of corrogated, or whatever, and insulate it well.
I painted the inside of my shed with very bright white kitchen and bathroom paint. The difference it makes to the light is unbelievable, its like having another striplight in there.
By insulating the roof, it will make it a lot nicer to work in when it is pouring with rain. You will need earplugs under polycarb, coz of the racket it makes.
If you rgoing to put a concrete floor in, yu may as well put two inches of kingspan under the concrete. it will make a huge difference.
Mate, like your thinking on the kingspan (got to buy it for the extension anyway). Ref the polycarb sheet, I've got a fair bit as I had bought a conservatory, but changed my mind and went for an extension instead (footings 1.6mtr deep and under building control), So I decided to use the conservatory in the shed build.
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A fridge freezer for cooling samples, milk for the tea, and beer.
Drainage for the sink could be done with a pump and some pipe back to the garage/house.
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A fridge freezer for cooling samples, milk for the tea, and beer.
Drainage for the sink could be done with a pump and some pipe back to the garage/house.
Any excuse for buying another pump eh Mark? :)
I had a microwave in my shed for heating samples but to be honest it hardly ever got used. I donated it to Chug's BBB 2011 as a pastie heater instead. (Cleaned it first!)
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A fridge freezer for cooling samples, milk for the tea, and beer.
Drainage for the sink could be done with a pump and some pipe back to the garage/house.
Any excuse for buying another pump eh Mark? :)
I'm not a pumpofile, no, I'm not.
I managed to sublunary convince Julian to donate my one for just that job,
but the same method didn't work for getting my hands on Heater.
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A fridge freezer for cooling samples, milk for the tea, and beer.
Drainage for the sink could be done with a pump and some pipe back to the garage/house.
Any excuse for buying another pump eh Mark? :)
I'm not a pumpofile, no, I'm not.
I managed to sublunary convince Julian to donate my one for just that job,
but the same method didn't work for getting my hands on Heater.
You didn't say you wanted a heater!
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A fridge freezer for cooling samples, milk for the tea, and beer.
Drainage for the sink could be done with a pump and some pipe back to the garage/house.
Any excuse for buying another pump eh Mark? :)
I'm not a pumpofile, no, I'm not.
I managed to sublunary convince Julian to donate my one for just that job,
but the same method didn't work for getting my hands on Heater.
You didn't say you wanted a heater!
Sorry, it should have said Heather,
I didn't say I wanted a drain pump, well, I did sublunary and you heard that.
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Seperate me and Heather ... get real!
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Would that be one leg Heather? Is she still going?
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A fridge freezer for cooling samples, milk for the tea, and beer.
Drainage for the sink could be done with a pump and some pipe back to the garage/house.
How bout a maserator?
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A fridge freezer for cooling samples, milk for the tea, and beer.
Drainage for the sink could be done with a pump and some pipe back to the garage/house.
How bout a maserator?
How many turds are you expecting to pump ?
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Seperate me and Heather ... get real!
Well I know you can't afford the £4m settlement.
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A fridge freezer for cooling samples, milk for the tea, and beer.
Drainage for the sink could be done with a pump and some pipe back to the garage/house.
Any excuse for buying another pump eh Mark? :)
I'm not a pumpofile, no, I'm not.
I managed to sublunary convince Julian to donate my one for just that job,
but the same method didn't work for getting my hands on Heater.
You didn't say you wanted a heater!
Sorry, it should have said Heather,
I didn't say I wanted a drain pump, well, I did sublunary and you heard that.
Hmmmm, should that be subliminary and not sublunary ?
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Would that be one leg Heather? Is she still going?
She hasn't even started yet! She's waiting for the new square processor to be built before she leaps into action. Problem is the new squrae processor is looking like it might take as long to build as the extension!
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Would that be one leg Heather? Is she still going?
She hasn't even started yet! She's waiting for the new square processor to be built before she leaps into action. Problem is the new squrae processor is looking like it might take as long to build as the extension!
In other words, the new square processor will be a pile of rust by the time you're ready to start building it.
So why don't you free up some room and let me look after Heather for you until you're ready for her.
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Would that be one leg Heather? Is she still going?
She hasn't even started yet! She's waiting for the new square processor to be built before she leaps into action. Problem is the new square processor is looking like it might take as long to build as the extension!
In other words, the new square processor will be a pile of rust by the time you're ready to start building it.
So why don't you free up some room and let me look after Heather for you until you're ready for her.
I'm struggling with the logic there!
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Jut give 'im the pump and stop his 'kin' whining, he's worse than a kid, I wan' I wan' I wan'.
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The objective is to have an area that remains immaculately clean,
This is an incompatable statement for wvo processing or biodiesel manufacture.
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The objective is to have an area that remains immaculately clean,
This is an incompatable statement for wvo processing or biodiesel manufacture.
I know, but I'm always striving for the impossible... in the end 95% there would be good enough.
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I have yet to see anybody's production area, be they a domestic or commercial producer, that is immaculately clean.
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I have yet to see anybody's production area, be they a domestic or commercial producer, that is immaculately clean.
Mine is ! ! !
In my dreams....
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I have yet to see anybody's production area, be they a domestic or commercial producer, that is immaculately clean.
I can't even see my comercial process for the mess.
(Carrington fuels where IBC's come to die ).
Paul
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I have yet to see anybody's production area, be they a domestic or commercial producer, that is immaculately clean.
I can't even see my comercial process for the mess.
(Carrington fuels where IBC's come to die ).
Paul
Sounds like a proper bio plant.
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I have yet to see anybody's production area, be they a domestic or commercial producer, that is immaculately clean.
I can't even see my comercial process for the mess.
(Carrington fuels where IBC's come to die ).
Paul
It's part of the culture :) Or the culture grows on it, one of the two.
When I first visited someone with a bio setup I thought "mine will never be a filthy mess like this"
Good job I wasn't wearing a hat or I'd be eating it right now.
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The only thing that needs to be clean to a high standard is the fuel, after that who cares.
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I have yet to see anybody's production area, be they a domestic or commercial producer, that is immaculately clean.
I can't even see my comercial process for the mess.
(Carrington fuels where IBC's come to die ).
Paul
How very true :)
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Don't think my Mrs. will allow me to have a machine back here if there's gonna b a mess (as there have been in the past)...
We're building a new dining room and landscaping. It's be nice if there was no sign of any bio etc. outside of the new shed and a shiny processor with clean floor inside the shed.
I guess a lot of it will be to do with how careful I am and how diligent I am at cleaning any splashes / spills. That said there are things the contribute to cleanliness, for example; if you can have fixed piping between tanks and pump everything rather than pour from containers that helps. The only weakness will be getting unfiltered oil into a tank at the start of the process.
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Maybe I'm a bit of an odd ball then ... my shed's reasonably clean, I think the sink with running water helps. I have some very tasteful blue lino on the floor and make a point of wiping up every spill. The "shelves" where the storage barrels sit are covered in sheet PVC and drain into a piece of guttering, from which I can drain any spills (think it's shown on the wiki.
Nathan, you're right about pumping everything. Incoming oil is pumped out of cubies and metal drums with the Mono pump. It's self priming and will deal with small lumps and fats without problem.
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hmm thats interesting you could have like one dirty area, no liquid are taken into shed, everything is pumped in and pumped out of shed, shed stays clean.
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Maybe I'm a bit of an odd ball then ... my shed's reasonably clean, I think the sink with running water helps. I have some very tasteful blue lino on the floor and make a point of wiping up every spill. The "shelves" where the storage barrels sit are covered in sheet PVC and drain into a piece of guttering, from which I can drain any spills (think it's shown on the wiki.
Nathan, you're right about pumping everything. Incoming oil is pumped out of cubies and metal drums with the Mono pump. It's self priming and will deal with small lumps and fats without problem.
mate - u got a link for mono pumps? How much are they?
btw Think I'm goin a bit pump mad at the mo, got a couple of stuart pumps off Steve (drying solution?), 3 x 110 lpm pumps from Glenn aka JGS (2 for processing and 1 for glyc washing etc?), a gear pump (on polish and dispense - might put another gear pump in for filtering feedstock - not sure if there's any value in this), a tam on my polishing / dispensing drum and a big B&Q pump which should be fine with oil, but not bio (not sure on a use for this yet).
Reckon that I will only have two tanks in the shed, one will be a processor - hopefully 450 litre SS, and one conical for dewatering etc. My final polish tank will stay in the garage to make dispensing easy.
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Maybe I'm a bit of an odd ball then ... my shed's reasonably clean, I think the sink with running water helps. I have some very tasteful blue lino on the floor and make a point of wiping up every spill. The "shelves" where the storage barrels sit are covered in sheet PVC and drain into a piece of guttering, from which I can drain any spills (think it's shown on the wiki.
Nathan, you're right about pumping everything. Incoming oil is pumped out of cubies and metal drums with the Mono pump. It's self priming and will deal with small lumps and fats without problem.
mate - u got a link for mono pumps? How much are they?
btw Think I'm goin a bit pump mad at the mo, got a couple of stuart pumps off Steve (drying solution?), 3 x 110 lpm pumps from Glenn aka JGS (2 for processing and 1 for glyc washing etc?), a gear pump (on polish and dispense - might put another gear pump in for filtering feedstock - not sure if there's any value in this), a tam on my polishing / dispensing drum and a big B&Q pump which should be fine with oil, but not bio (not sure on a use for this yet).
Reckon that I will only have two tanks in the shed, one will be a processor - hopefully 450 litre SS, and one conical for dewatering etc. My final polish tank will stay in the garage to make dispensing easy.
Details in the wiki ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Manuals_and_instructions (might be an idea to give them their own page now, like the TAM and Leo) and very expensive! They are good quality industrial units built like brick toilet blocks.
They come up on ebay from time to time, but still fetch quite good money. Spare are readily available for Mono in Manchester even for very old units, but spares too are expensive. I bought a Viton stator for the little one I have i use and it's lasted very well so far. Both Tony and I have a search going and usually flag up any likely candidates.
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Always hunting monos. Though if you have access to gear pumps I guess they are equally self priming so could also pump feedstock out of drums.
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Always hunting monos. Though if you have access to gear pumps I guess they are equally self priming so could also pump feedstock out of drums.
But not lumps ... they don't like it up'em.
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Always hunting monos. Though if you have access to gear pumps I guess they are equally self priming so could also pump feedstock out of drums.
But not lumps ... they don't like it up'em.
Gear pumps aren't for horribly dirty oil. You've probably seen the other thread on pre-filtering feedstock. I think the key is to heat, suck with some sort of pump using a foot valve and strainer, then pump the heated discharge from the pump to another tank via a 200 micron strainer.
Those mono's sound expensive, but if you see one going at sensible money, I'd love one :-)