Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Vehicles => Topic started by: Tony on December 31, 2012, 12:03:29 AM
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So for years on bio I've changed the engine oil three times a year just to be sure, after reading some advice on VOD about halving the oil change interval. I've now left my oil over a year (keeping an eye on it just in case) and drained it today. No signs of anything wrong at all, no lumps or gelling.
Maybe the advice is best suited for veg users - what does everyone else do with their oil change interval?
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It's just good maintenance to keep short oil changes regardless of what the engine is running on.
From what I can tell veg/bio/diesel makes little difference as long as the engine is healthy in the first place, more a better safe than sorry measure but I'd rather spend the extra few quid for peace of mind.
One of my estimas had been chronically ignored before I bought it and had obviously missed a few oil changes, when I did the first one the oil more plopped out than poured and that had been on diesel.
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It's just good maintenance to keep short oil changes regardless of what the engine is running on.
From what I can tell veg/bio/diesel makes little difference as long as the engine is healthy in the first place, more a better safe than sorry measure but I'd rather spend the extra few quid for peace of mind.
One of my estimas had been chronically ignored before I bought it and had obviously missed a few oil changes, when I did the first one the oil more plopped out than poured and that had been on diesel.
I'd agree with the regular oil changes. At least this way you get to keep an eye on your oil. Just because you haven't run into trouble yet, is no guarantee that you will always have problem free motoring.
Here's an interesting experience from a Landcruiser owner who'd used veg for (it would seem a little shy of 30K). I'm not convinced that Denso IP's are the best for WVO, but Landcruiser engines are known for their ruggedness often doing 300 - 500K with just regular maintenance. The guy was also doing 3500mile interval oil changes:
http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3166 (http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3166)
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i have done 1 oil change in 3 years on the pug 406 running veg only, think ive done 40,000 miles in that time. only did this as i was bored one day.
but i vote change regualar if you value your car, im not too worried i would just get another car. im driving round with with 2 dented doors now and wing :o
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It's just good maintenance to keep short oil changes regardless of what the engine is running on.
From what I can tell veg/bio/diesel makes little difference as long as the engine is healthy in the first place, more a better safe than sorry measure but I'd rather spend the extra few quid for peace of mind.
One of my estimas had been chronically ignored before I bought it and had obviously missed a few oil changes, when I did the first one the oil more plopped out than poured and that had been on diesel.
I'd agree with the regular oil changes. At least this way you get to keep an eye on your oil. Just because you haven't run into trouble yet, is no guarantee that you will always have problem free motoring.
Here's an interesting experience from a Landcruiser owner who'd used veg for (it would seem a little shy of 30K). I'm not convinced that Denso IP's are the best for WVO, but Landcruiser engines are known for their ruggedness often doing 300 - 500K with just regular maintenance. The guy was also doing 3500mile interval oil changes:
http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3166 (http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3166)
300 or 200 TDI ?
i would say these need a proper twin tanking system, as these smoke high running veg... and dont like cold weather
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And that's the point that I always make with bio as well as WVO. If you have a disposable car, you don't need to go to the bother and extra cost of getting things perfect.
Steve & I went to see a mate in Stamford the other day, who went to great lengths to make perfect fuel when he started, but then inherited an old Xantia and stopped using fuel in his decent cars. Now he doesn't bother about quality, as the Xantia isn't fussy and if he kills it, there's no great loss.
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300 or 200 TDI ?
i would say these need a proper twin tanking system, as these smoke high running veg... and dont like cold weather
300 or 200 TDI?? aren't they Landrovers? These are Lancruisers (Toyota)
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I change the oils and filters on the Passat and Golf every 5000miles. I've done them both during the Christmas break, borrowing my mates suckerupperer. Far easier to oil change through the dipstick hole than removing the shit shields and working under the car.
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300 or 200 TDI ?
i would say these need a proper twin tanking system, as these smoke high running veg... and dont like cold weather
300 or 200 TDI?? aren't they Landrovers? These are Lancruisers (Toyota)
sorry just woke up when i read this and didnt have my glasses on (note to self book new eye test in) as my eyes are bad i scan read, the 2 both have L at the front., must read things properly!
sorry chap.
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I do them at around 4000 miles in both the RangeRover and the Disco.
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Interesting story on the landcruiser. Sounds very much like switching over before warm was part of the issue.
Mostly I do 3 miles to work and back and the engine hardly has time to get warm (one of the reasons I elected to go down the biodiesel route rather than twin tanking, as I'd never have time to change over). I also do a lot of short journeys around the city.
I regularly check the oil via the dipstick and inspect the top of the oil filler cap for gelling. I presume with biodiesel that ring gumming is a non-issue and therefore less chance of lube oil contamination, which I expect wouldn't gel so quickly with biodiesel either.
You're right that it's better to prevent problems with regular oil changes, definitely if you run on veg - but for biodiesel perhaps it's not so critical?
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The 80 series 4.2 engines are Direct Injection, and as the guy who owned it admitted, it may not have been coming up to temp before switching over. Plus no one ever checks the engines compression and rings BEFORE they run veg or twin tank it. Lets face it the newest 12v 4.2 is from 1996 and big old lump that sits in traffic and does round town trips will probably get ring gumming on diesel.
Tony's motor is an IDI and will not get ring gumming as easy, I can tell you from personal experience of running DI and IDI engines that IDI's are a lot less prone to this problem on veg.
One of the cars I ran had a denso IP though it probably is a different model to the one fitted to the 80 series.
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Ah, DI too, didn't notice that detail. Running veg in a DI engine without it being up to temperature does sound like a recipe for ring gumming. In his case then, changing the oil beforehand wouldn't have saved him eventual problems caused by blow-by and ongoing loss of compression, so more of a symptom rather than a cause.
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I've been changing around the 10 thousand mark, and the oil comes out black with a really burnt smell to it. Wouldn't want it in there any longer than 10 thou. Was the same before I started running veg.
Smell is not a bad way of judging it, along with the colour, in my mind. If it smells bad or looks bad, it needs changing.
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The 80 series 4.2 engines are Direct Injection, and as the guy who owned it admitted, it may not have been coming up to temp before switching over. Plus no one ever checks the engines compression and rings BEFORE they run veg or twin tank it. Lets face it the newest 12v 4.2 is from 1996 and big old lump that sits in traffic and does round town trips will probably get ring gumming on diesel.
Tony's motor is an IDI and will not get ring gumming as easy, I can tell you from personal experience of running DI and IDI engines that IDI's are a lot less prone to this problem on veg.
One of the cars I ran had a denso IP though it probably is a different model to the one fitted to the 80 series.
Didn't the 80 series get the earlier 12V 4.2 engine IDI and the last models got the 24V DI (1HD-FT) similar to the 100 series but with a manual rather than electronic IP (1HD - FTE)?
I was looking at the doc you posted on the differences between the 1HD - FT and the later 1HD - FTE, had no idea that they made so many changes and why.
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I change mine every 3-4000 with a fully synthetic - dont switch to oil around town or short journeys and there is no hint of problems so far (touch wood)
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Historically I have done my oil changes annually however at 50 miles per working day (7 on 3 off, 7 on 4 off) my partner is starting to knock up the miles, I can see me changing hers twice a year.
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I've never seen or smelt anything in my engine oil out of the ordinary. But has anyone here ever come across evidence of bio causing ring gumming. I've always said that it doesn't AFAIK but I'd like to be more sure.
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I've never seen or smelt anything in my engine oil out of the ordinary. But has anyone here ever come across evidence of bio causing ring gumming. I've always said that it doesn't AFAIK but I'd like to be more sure.
Our two cars are running as well today on Bio as they ever have.
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I don't think Bio does gum the rings, any more than dino. Its the fact that veg tends to partially combust at low temperatures, and uncombusted bit turns to a gum that sits on the rings, and then bakes hard as the engine warms up.
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Thanks guys, thought that was the case. I guess the absence of contrary info proves the point!
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Hi Nathan,
After re checking the info on the 80 series it appears that I was wrong, the old 4.2 12v engine is an IDI engine, I was given this info from some one who is supposed to know about them! :o
I suppose it does happen to IDI's as well, but where it may happen to IDI's it definitely will happen to a DI if you run 100% veg and do short trips and or lots of cold starts.
I agree with others in that running bio does not seem to require as regular an oil change as running straight veg. I had my van about 1 year, (VW LT TDI) and did over 8k on bio and did not change the oil!
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Some IDI will suffer from ring gumming when run on veg,
the MB OM606 and 605 are known for it (but for some reason the 606 more so).
As for oil changes, the wife's 406 has now covered just short of 85K on bio (185K total),
this is with a Bosch conversion with the timing set by ear (there's no data for a 1.9 pump on a 2.1 engine),
in that time it's only ever had one oil change a year,
we've had it almost 4 years so over 20K between changes.
it still only needs topping up once between changes and runs well.
But one thing that does concern me is the sticky buildup in the fuel lines,
I changed the one from filter to pump recently and it only had a small hole down the center, maybe about 2mm in a 8mm id pipe,
needless to say it was down on power.