Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
General => Wiki and forum discussion => Topic started by: Julian on December 17, 2010, 10:57:37 PM
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Keith/Paul ...
I did ask before, but I think it got lost in the thread going a little off topic.
Do you mind if I rework your processor graphics to match, once I've battled through the current page?
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Do you know how long that took me with bloomin MS paint :D,while your at it could you put my guide into steps like the twyn tub :-*
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Although editing others work it's one advantage of the wiki, it's also a big draw back. I well understand that it can be very soul destroying to have work you've spent ages on, changed. It tends to discourage ownership of the page. That's why I asked the question and put this in the site guidelines ...
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Editors are free to make minor changes to any page such as corrections to spelling and grammar or adjusting page layout. However, as a courtesy to other contributors, you are requested to contact the contributor to discuss and agree any major changes in content. Major changes should preferably be made by the original contributor.
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Really didn't mean to offend or upset, just wanted to keep a consistency going. Happy to leave be if you'd prefer.
Similarly happy for you to rearrange the text if you wish. You could copy it from "edit" mode in the GL page and alter in word or note pad, then just paste back to your page.
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I've barley used MS paint, but I've just had a brief play and it seems possible to lift bits from existing bitmaps.
Try saving http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:Wiki_graphics_master.png to your computer. Open it in paint, then open another paint window. You can select and copy items from one then paste into the other and move them around as separate objects.
I'm happy to add pipes, bends and other objects, in various orientations as required if it will help. Let me know.
Also posted this to the graphics master page.
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Just had a longer play in paint and it seems possible to replicate the style quite well using copy and paste plus a bit of Paint ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:Paint_test.PNG
EDIT ... Oh, sorry, should have said, text was copy and pasted out of Word, 10 point Arial
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Feel free to do it Julian,the :D smillie was meant to show i was joking,it will look better matching the others
All i did with this was pass a word doc to Paul with links to the vid clips
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Keith, thanks, I'll put it next on the list.
Sorry for missing the significance of the smilie ... not a big user, well not a user of smilies at all, so their subtleties passes me by! I'll pay more attention in future
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For future ref treat all my posts as trying to be funny/hav,nt got a clue,i will let you know if im ever serious
BTW,ive got a short clip of my dewatering attatchment,i think their called diffusers? basically a cone that goes under the outlet it could be of use on the drying page or on my twin drum page,its on photobucket mind you it was snowing at the time i took it
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Ok, won't believe a thing you write in future.
Sounds like it's well worth having. I'm not an expert but, from the link Tony put up earlier these are the only platforms from which we can embed videos:
Site Service Name
Dailymotion dailymotion
Div Share divshare
Edutopia edutopia
FunnyOrDie funnyordie
Google Video googlevideo
Interia interia or interiavideo
Revver revver
sevenload sevenload
TeacherTube teachertube
YouTube youtube and youtubehd
Vimeo vimeo
So I don't think Photobucket will work. Can you upload it to YouTube or Google Video?
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<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZUeMUOHNuAM?fs=1&hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZUeMUOHNuAM?fs=1&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
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That's on youtube, so quite doable.
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Just put it on, im also adding the others
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From recent experience I'll believe that when I see it!
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All uploaded now ;D
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Any URLs?
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All these clips are on here i think
50/50 soap test
Eductor
wet oil HPT
dry oil HPT
WVO drying
these arent
Diffuser
Eductor/spray bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ZXhWEwyXA
Spray bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P96GzZUtF7Y
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Keith, graphic for the processor is up on your Two drum page. I rearranged it a little to give an easer layout but it still functions the same.
Is this OK before I proceed?
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Looks spot on Julian,nice one
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Hi all,
State diagram for Two drum processor has been uploaded, would someone mind checking it over please.
I think I need modify the schematic to show the sight tube connected to the left of valve V2. There must be other mistakes, please scrutinise carefully!
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Ok Julian will have a peer later :)
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Some thoughts
7% is the ideal amount of prewash water,i actually always prewash,i reserve the glyc prewash for high titrating oil,which touch wood i dont often get
General consensus is to get the methanol in as quick as poss,it used to be thought 20mins was optimum
There should be no problems as the pumps will not spark internally
Poss to convert to GL -yuk,Why would anybody want to downgrade this to a GL? (thats a jest Julian :) )
On the low level flaw-surely thats a flaw with any processor?
Where it says requires a wash tank- this design is equally suited to a settling tank or drywash tower its just in my case ive paired it with a wash tank,the only problem with stating this is it requires the methanol to be bubbled off to settle or drywash,bubbling the meth to air is probably still the most common way,not here but stateside and Aus from what ive read - but do we take an enviro angle on this? personally i would,nt but i can understand if others disagree (ref the stick e3msb got a few weeks ago for saying he sometimes does it that way)
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Keith,
Thanks for that. I've changed 5% to 7% and altered the much maligned GL processor page to reflect.
I know recent perceived wisdom states add Methoxide at full bore and have altered the GL page to suit. The reference to slow introduction on your page was only when using the pump suction for that purpose. I understand there is little chance of a spark especially with a brass impellor within a cast iron housing. However, I believe the mechanical seal relies, to a degree, on lubrication from the liquid being pumped and I'm uncertain as to the lubricating properties, if any, of Methoxide.
The seal is a source of friction and therefore possible heat and with the wrong combination of valves an inexperienced user could run the pump on pure Methoxide which I think should be avoided at all costs. I should, perhaps make it more obvious that the oil circulation should be running full bore and the Methoxide bled into this flow. Other than time, there are no issues in introducing the Methoxide slowly.
Thanks, although grossly misguided, I did cotton on to the jest! It pains me to admit that with the last two batches, in an attempt to eradicate HMPEs or what ever we are now calling the ones that don't liquefy until 30-40°C, I have pretty much emulated the procedure you use on your processor without the water wash, with apparent success.
I'm also wondering if all the bells and whistles I've spent time making are worthwhile. I spent ages making an adjustable squirrel which apparently speeded the distilling process when run with a tank temp of 85°C. However I found that when the squirrel was turned off and normal distilling continued at 85°C the distillation rate was the same!
Re the exposed heater issue, I pointed out the problem both on your design and on the GL (well, Graham did in his original text). It doesn't however, apply to Paddy's design, so in order to present the facts to newcomers I think it's only fair to point out these issues, especially where safety is concerned.
Good point re the wash tank, I'll try and word thing so that settling and bubbling can be used as alternatives. Maybe it would offer a more easily understood explanation if each had a separate page, any of which could be used in conjunction with your processor.
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Valve combo table looks good Julian.
I haven't prewashed in a long time, might try it to see again if there is any affect on HMPEs.
As a point of interest on the Methoxide/pump thing, the chap I buy mine from dispenses it with a non-ATEX rated pump, but out in the open air. He's been using the same pump for a very long time without apparent issues.
The only worry would be accidentally isolating a pump full of Methanol, which would heat up and up without fluid flow through it.
As for the squirrel, you're the second person I know to observe that. I've always been unconvinced regarding it's benefit as you're no doubt aware - aside from the extra turnover of the second pump and a nice high surface area spray for evaporation.
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As for the squirrel, you're the second person I know to observe that. I've always been unconvinced regarding it's benefit as you're no doubt aware
Understatement of the year there Tony :)
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Tony,
Do you mean pre-water wash? If so. I found it didn't help in the slightest although HCII has stated it cured his "HMPE" problem ... may vary with feed stock.
I've only tried Glycerol prewash once with pre-water wash glycerol and wasn't impressed. Seemed to emulsify what was beautifully clean oil and resulted in bio that stayed cloudy in the settling tank until I returned it to the processor and heated it to 30ish °C. Best cold weather bio I've made to date though survived -8°C, just going a little cloudy at low temps. and then clearing again as it warmed a little. No "HMPEs" as far as I could tell although I did chill it and got some precipitate on the coil which didn't remelt and felt different to "normal" "HMPEs". Major difference between this batch and others was keeping the temperatures low Whilst the Bio was in contact with Glycerol.
ATEX rating, I think, is more to do with the atmosphere in which the equipment is sited than internal issues, but I'd still feel uncomfortable guiding anyone towards pumping Metrhoxide with a pump unsuited for purpose ... people could be using all sorts of pumps on their processors, not just TAMS and Leos.
I was disappointed with the Squirrel result. I even tried running it way above Jim's recommended maximum pressure with no improvement and no explosion! One thing that reinforced my doubts was switching off both pumps but leaving the heater on at 85°C, early in the distillation. Listening to the tank it sounded like a minor volcanic eruption with Methanol evaporating violently at the heater.
The only thing I haven't tried is an eductor. These do seem worthwhile and I'll hopefully have a bash at one shortly ... could assist in wiki pages on both eductors and silver soldering.
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I will be interested to hear your results with an eductor