Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: Tony on November 05, 2012, 11:29:39 AM
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When I soap test I use boiling water to get rapid separation and a red laser pointer (the one on my IR thermometer) through the water to check for backscatter from soap particles. If there is a little soap in the water then this shows as a beam through the water, even though just to the eye alone it may appear clear. This is corroborated by NigelB's soap test kit.
But we know from the sky being blue that shorter wavelengths are more readily scattered by dust in the atmosphere, so perhaps a red beam is not a good choice.
Which got me thinking, what if we used a violet/blue laser directly through the biodiesel itself to look for soap? But maybe green would be better as the eye is more sensitive to green light.
Shorter wavelengths are readily available up to 100mW for very little cost:
http://laser.ankaka.com/purple-blue-adjust-focus-laser-pointer-1-x-cr123a-100mw-405nm_p47057.html
http://laser.ankaka.com/wf501b-flashlight-style-green-laser-pointer-1-x-16340cr123a-50mw-532nm_p47537.html
...though at those kind of powers eye protection would be essential.
It appears that the import of lasers is not a problem, it is just public use of lasers that is restricted by law to lower powers. So for the purpose of our private lab work this should not be an issue.
As an intermediate step I've got a 5mW green laser on the way to see how this performs (about £4 delivered, bonkers!)
It would be nice to have a quick test that doesn't involve water or titration - watch this space!
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should be plenty of the disco lasers about to buy...
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When I soap test I use boiling water to get rapid separation and a red laser pointer (the one on my IR thermometer) through the water to check for backscatter from soap particles. If there is a little soap in the water then this shows as a beam through the water, even though just to the eye alone it may appear clear. This is corroborated by NigelB's soap test kit.
But we know from the sky being blue that shorter wavelengths are more readily scattered by dust in the atmosphere, so perhaps a red beam is not a good choice.
Which got me thinking, what if we used a violet/blue laser directly through the biodiesel itself to look for soap? But maybe green would be better as the eye is more sensitive to green light.
Shorter wavelengths are readily available up to 100mW for very little cost:
http://laser.ankaka.com/purple-blue-adjust-focus-laser-pointer-1-x-cr123a-100mw-405nm_p47057.html
http://laser.ankaka.com/wf501b-flashlight-style-green-laser-pointer-1-x-16340cr123a-50mw-532nm_p47537.html
...though at those kind of powers eye protection would be essential.
It appears that the import of lasers is not a problem, it is just public use of lasers that is restricted by law to lower powers. So for the purpose of our private lab work this should not be an issue.
As an intermediate step I've got a 5mW green laser on the way to see how this performs.
It would be nice to have a quick test that doesn't involve water or titration - watch this space!
High quality and useful 405nm laser pointer is certain to bring convenience and joy to your life.
gosh!! will it do the washing up?
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Tony, this could make a nice brief page in the "Safety and testing" section.
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(http://pictures.pichaus.com/63faf340a6de0c3a10536fbf3c90bdcbc3e7a7bf?AWSAccessKeyId=0K4RZZKHSB5N2XYJWF02&Expires=1352130000&Signature=5CaolJk6O1xx9SLYOsI%2Fv1HiffM%3D)
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(http://pictures.pichaus.com/63faf340a6de0c3a10536fbf3c90bdcbc3e7a7bf?AWSAccessKeyId=0K4RZZKHSB5N2XYJWF02&Expires=1352130000&Signature=5CaolJk6O1xx9SLYOsI%2Fv1HiffM%3D)
nice to see that sign again. i know mike quite well. it was my big scary laser that prompted that sign. 2 5 watt lasers on one chassis. weighed 75 kgs.
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How do you know Mike? And what were your lasers for? I sense a story here :)
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i have known mike for about 13 years. he first met at a tesla coil meeting. i organised a meeting of tesla coilers until last year when i handing it over to someone else. too much paperwork for me. the laser came from a cambridge scrapyard. it was left in a factory owned by a big scary laser company, and was too old and big to move. i stripped the laser off the cabinet it was on with all the unwanted stuff like safety interlocks and stuff. :D the power supply was too heavy and expensive to get . remember this is in as scrapyard and i had already spent £75 quid on it. i didnt do anything with it and sold it to mike. delivered it to his place and he managed to get it it working. he brought it up to a teslathon once. there is a picture of it on his site somewhere. it was originally a medical laser used as a light scalpel i think. 5 watt argon and 5 watt krypton. the krypton laser had degassed, but mike got the argon one working. the same model is used for light shows or was. the power supply is 240 volt 30 amps so easy to do. needed water cooling.
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Sweet. I used to be a tesla coiler. The biggest one I built was with two 3.3kW industrial microwave transformers with the secondaries in antiphase. I think it was about 4.8kV @ 1.4A or thereabouts.
I built a Richard Quick sequential spark gap for it (in a tube with fan on the end to blow the arcs out). First time I ran it it turned the spark gap to slag while emitting a pretty green light, then set fire to the grass. Gave up on that one and returned to my 300W NST before I killed myself with those transformers :)
Mind you I did like that when they were turned on, it dimmed the lights in every third house down the street.
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This thread is doing nothing to improve peoples opinion of your sanity!
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Being sane is overrated ::)
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Sweet. I used to be a tesla coiler. The biggest one I built was with two 3.3kW industrial microwave transformers with the secondaries in antiphase. I think it was about 4.8kV @ 1.4A or thereabouts.
I built a Richard Quick sequential spark gap for it (in a tube with fan on the end to blow the arcs out). First time I ran it it turned the spark gap to slag while emitting a pretty green light, then set fire to the grass. Gave up on that one and returned to my 300W NST before I killed myself with those transformers :)
Mind you I did like that when they were turned on, it dimmed the lights in every third house down the street.
my biggest one was about 4 kw. 12 foot sparks. i kept it in a museum as that was the only place i could safely run it. do you know paul benham? he is somewhere near you. he has a nice dc coil using 4 MOTs and a voltage doubler.
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It's possible I've met him, used to know a few coilers around here but forget their names.
One chap at one of the electric museums was going to try and source me a pole pig :)
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I'll have a try wit me red laser pointer on the next batch.
and tesla coils is something I've been meaning to look into for ages and never got round to, probably coz electrics aint my strong point at the best o times. I've got a mate in London who has tinkered with some success.
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I'll have a try wit me red laser pointer on the next batch.
and tesla coils is something I've been meaning to look into for ages and never got round to, probably coz electrics aint my strong point at the best o times. I've got a mate in London who has tinkered with some success.
i might build one for a bit of interest at the next BBB down here. a few people sounded interested. i have most of the bits lying around so wouldn't be too difficult. this will be after i finisher the processor of course.!!!
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I've always wanted to build a solid state coil, small but perfectly formed (and tuned!)
IIRC half the battle was tuning the secondary to 1/4 wavelength.
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Bob, could you build one of the music playing solid state ones?
That would be soooooo cool at the BBB, we could have musical arcs to keep us entertained (providing the music wasn't drowned out by the noise from the generator of course)
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been a while since i read this one, blast from the past
;D
bots are interested, there like virtual people, me buddies lol :)
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Oh I tried a green laser for soap backscatter, it was no better than the red so it got sold on.
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Does this work?
I didn't like soap testing, too fiddly and seemed like results were a little subjective? How does this method compare?
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Does this work?
I didn't like soap testing, too fiddly and seemed like results were a little subjective? How does this method compare?
I think it would be good to do some tests at the BBB,
if we all bring a small sample (50ml or so) of our bio we could start with the laser test,
maybe marking it 1 to 10 for clarity,
then do a titrated soap test,
we may be able to draw some usefull conclusions from it.
Even if it is that there is no correlation between the two.
This does however rely on Nige being able/willing to do the titrated tests.
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For me it shows the difference between clear water layer but with some soap present and crystal water layer with very little soap present, which is otherwise hard to quantify. It also avoids the effect of bubbles of bio stuck to the sides of the glass in the water layer, which can make it look soapy when in fact it isn't.
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Would infra red or ultra violet show up soap particles?
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Does this work?
I didn't like soap testing, too fiddly and seemed like results were a little subjective? How does this method compare?
I think it would be good to do some tests at the BBB,
if we all bring a small sample (50ml or so) of our bio we could start with the laser test,
maybe marking it 1 to 10 for clarity,
then do a titrated soap test,
we may be able to draw some usefull conclusions from it.
Even if it is that there is no correlation between the two.
This does however rely on Nige being able/willing to do the titrated tests.
An interesting quote there regarding the subjectivity of soap testing. I suppose it's all down to how accurate you are with the kit you use. If you're a bit heavy handed, clumsy or have a degree of colour blindness then you're always going to struggle. I've never suffered from these conditions and found that titrated soap testing is by far the most accurate method currently available.
However, it would be interesting to perform some comparrison testing with lasers and I'd be quite willing to help. I could bring all my kit if you wish and have a little play before I consume too much falling down fluid!!
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Great stuff Nige, I'll bring a sample or two.
I think I still have some of the samples I sent you, so I'll bring them as well.
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Tony I assume it's best done in a glass jar, is that right ?
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Yep glass jar in the dark, in daylight it's not going to work. I have a pile of little glass sample jars if necessary.
I find the 50:50 a very quick and easy test, and it saves titrated test chemicals - I use Nige's titrated test as a backup for when I'm not sure about the 50:50 results.
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Yep glass jar in the dark, in daylight it's not going to work. I have a pile of little glass sample jars if necessary.
I find the 50:50 a very quick and easy test, and it saves titrated test chemicals - I use Nige's titrated test as a backup for when I'm not sure about the 50:50 results.
I see a problem here, by the time it's dark me, you, and many others may not be able to see the results very clearly.
Or anything else for that matter.
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Yep glass jar in the dark, in daylight it's not going to work. I have a pile of little glass sample jars if necessary.
I find the 50:50 a very quick and easy test, and it saves titrated test chemicals - I use Nige's titrated test as a backup for when I'm not sure about the 50:50 results.
I see a problem here, by the time it's dark me, you, and many others may not be able to see the results very clearly.
Or anything else for that matter.
One of you may no longer be there at all!
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Yep glass jar in the dark, in daylight it's not going to work. I have a pile of little glass sample jars if necessary.
I find the 50:50 a very quick and easy test, and it saves titrated test chemicals - I use Nige's titrated test as a backup for when I'm not sure about the 50:50 results.
I see a problem here, by the time it's dark me, you, and many others may not be able to see the results very clearly.
Or anything else for that matter.
One of you may no longer be there at all!
Why, what's happening to Tony ?