Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: julesandtash on October 14, 2012, 09:14:14 PM
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I am rebuilding my plant to incorporate the new in processor titrated water wash, hot water (bio heated of course) heating of the oil and melting of solids and some new control gear.
First stage has been tanking the walls of the cold and damp building it is in (single skin concrete block and concrete roof) and building a new bund. There is tanking membrane against the walls, a 2" gap filled with rockwool and battens, then 18mm OSB boards fixed to it as the inner skin.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0024_zps59842cfe.jpg)
Here is the tanked walls and the bund structure. It is 1 metre wide, 3 metres long and 400mm deep in the middle. The floor slopes at 1 in 55 from each end towards the centre sump.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0025_zps2d08c31f.jpg)
To make the bund bio proof, I lined it with GRP (ie polyester two part resin reinforced with chopped strand fibreglass matting.
Here is the 20Kg of resin, 10Kg of top coat (not visible in the picture) and 10 sq. m of mat.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0026_zps534ea665.jpg)
Fibreglassing all done
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0027_zps346938ba.jpg)
Battens on for tiling - the whitish tubes are the old electrical conduits which are being replaced as part of the rework
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0028_zps112c82b7.jpg)
Tiling going up - suddenly the whole room is looking much brighter
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0031_zps3fd395aa.jpg)
Getting there - what a far nicer place to put a processor. Just need to clean the dropped tile cement off of the fibreglass before I put the oil tank in there.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0032_zps3bcfecd5.jpg)
I've just a got a bit more grouting to do and a few cut tiles then I can recruit some labour to lift the steel oil settling tank and the processor into the bund. Both are going to sit on wooden blocks to lift them clear of the floor by around 300mm and the blocks will be sized to make the oil tank and processor sit level whereas the floor of the bund slopes.
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Very pretty. That's tidier than what I live in!
Is the flowcoat bio proof? I guess if drips and spills will be pretty rare if your setup is as good as the bund. Bio will destroy normal grp and flowcoat, but a drip shouldn't be a problem if its wiped up.
Bio proof resin is £70 a litre. Thats what I got quoted anyway.
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Drips certainly dont seem to hurt it - I made up a small piece then dripped some bio on and left it - nothing happened.
Maybe I will make up another sample and leave it submerged in a jar of bio to see what happens.
I seem to recall that, once cured, fibreglass is pretty resilient to bio. I certainly hope so as I wont be buying bio proof resin at that price. There is, as it stands, about 15 litres of resin and 8 litres of top coat in that bund.
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Wow that is really nice work Jules. Now I have a severe case of shed envy as I'd love a built in spill system. I wondered about a grate over such a system, so no need to worry about mopping spills on the floor.
Very impressive!
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Looking good jules.
You're going to have to change the way you work now, as I remember you're not the cleanest worker (just like me).
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That is exactly why I am doing all this. If there is an option for me to get dirty and spread oil everywhere then I will. The more that is in place to prevent oil finding it's way onto the floor, then the path, the into the house the better.
I have been dwelling on ideas for a while and now finally can afford to spend some time and a few pennies (a surprising amount actually, it soon adds up) on the plant room.
I am also simplifying a lot of things so hopefully Tash will be able to help out with bio making (if she can walk into somewhere relatively clean and just flip a switch or two or press a few buttons then she is more likely to help). The state the old processing area had got into was quite depressing.
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Mine is quite depressing at the moment. I have planks down so that containers don't get squidgy from the floor. People ask to see the plant but I'm often too ashamed to show them (unless it's a fellow bio buddy, in which case they know the score already). So yes, entirely get where you're coming from.
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Tash read this thread and says that she feels your pain there Tony!
She also didn't swear at me when she read the bit about helping and pressing some buttons.
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That is quite restrained :) Suzanne doesn't come in my shed because of the huge spiders that guard it.
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I installed the dispensing pump and filters this evening - I needed to since although there was 300 litres or so of fuel in the outdoor storage tank, the low fuel light was on in Tash's RangeRover.
I need to get power to it properly as, at the moment it is just plugged into an extension lead but at least it is in the right place and fixed to the wall. We even cleaned up the filter housings before putting them in although really my long serving TAM105 could do with a coat of blue paint to make it look nice.
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OK, that's it, next weekend I'm going to flock wallpaper the shed, carpet the floor and install mood lighting.
Jules that's a blinding piece of work. Don't think you'll work any cleaner ... but it will be easier to clean up the mess!
You mentioned "top coat". I've used gellcoat when molding, but I've not come across top coat. Is it like a tougher coloured resin to protect the layup?
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Yup, it is a bit thicker than the resin and mid grey in colour. You mix it with hardener in the same way as you do the resin (same ratio) and then paint it on - the instructions say to aim for a 0.5mm thick layer. It is certainly very hard when cured.
The products I used were Crystic Roof materials from Scott Bader.
Strange as you mention the mood lighting. After I smashed a 4 foot fluorescent tube (the bits of which fell on my head and shattered all over me) when moving those sheets of OSB around in a confined space - Tash suggested installing LED tape lighting along the roof - exactly the same as I have in my caravan.
It's actually a good idea - the tape is IP65 rated so safe enough to use anywhere. It runs on 12V so it's really easy to make a battery backed up power supply to power it so the lights wont go out if the power trips or there is a power cut.
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I used to be a GRP laminater for a few years. The top coat is called a "flow coat" It can be bought ready mixed, or mixed from resin, a pigment, and a thickening powder. As it cures, a tough wearing wax layer rises to the surface. As mentioned, it protects the laminate. Here endeth the lesson. :P
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looking squeaky clean Jules, I have a grp shower tray that I've used under my settling tank for several years with no bad effect from a puddle of bio sitting in it.
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I have been busy doing some more stuff.
Here is the rather substantial timber pack for the 800 litre steel oil settling and heating tank to sit on.
Those timbers are 4" X 4" tanalised. It is probably over engineered but that tank is around 900Kg when full to the top so it needs to be reasonably strong.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0034_zpsfd8f935a.jpg)
Here is the steel tank in position. It used to be covered in rockwool and a layer of silver bubble wrap prior to being moved - hence the bits of rockwool stuck to it and it's current un-appealing appearance. The plan is to surround it with 25mm celotex (including the lid) which will keep it warm and also look nice. The dispensing pump that draws from a floating pickup in the outdoor storage tank and feeds a nozzle on the drive can be seen above the tank, along with it's filters.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0036_zps65d7685a.jpg)
The old outlet ports and heater flange now blanked off. I need to fit new ones into the end panel but first of all need to put the central heating radiator in the bottom of the tank for the boiler powered hot water heating of the oil. The immersion will go just above that as a backup source of heat. The 1.5" drain valve will go as low as possible and the 1" outlet fitting will go just above the radiator so none of the 'dead zone' is sucked into the pump.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/New%20Bio%20Plant/SAM_0037_zpsa4a2472a.jpg)
Next steps is fitting the radiator and tank ports, then insulating the tank and getting some oil in there. The processor is stripped down and ready to move into the other end of the bund once I grout the remaining tiles.
After that I just need to reassemble the processor, re-insulate it, fit the pump and pipework to the storage/heating tank, put all the hot water heating control gear in place and get it all up and running.
I suspect I will be making a few batches on electric heating before I get it all sorted.
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Now I have the valves, heater and circulating pump installed on the end of the oil tank. All the pipework is 1" steel or malleable iron. The drain valve on the left hand end of the tank is 1.5"
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/SAM_0041_zps86a934d3.jpg)
Both the oil tank and the processor fit in the bund nicely
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/SAM_0039_zpsb171197b.jpg)
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Looking good :) My tank's drain valve is 1/2" I think, never had any problem draining water due to filtering the oil before storage. I would like to weld in a couple of fittings but don't have anywhere else to put 1100l of oil :)
Course, you could install a coil in that tank and use it as a coil in tank condenser for the processor, but with oil as the cooling medium (warm your oil for no extra cost).
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Ahh, but why would I put a coil in there when I no longer have a condenser on the plant? (no need for one with the in processor water washing).
I used the big valve as not only do I not filter oil into the tank (it goes through a sieve to remove chips and the like but that is all) but also shovel palm oil into there so it can melt overnight. My Palm oil supplier filters his oil out of the friers into my blue drums so I know it is clean - hence I can just shovel the big lumps in.
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Thursday is going to be the big day - making a batch with the plant in it's new position. Some fittings should turn up from BES tomorrow to get the plumbing operational (not quite finished but good enough to make some bio) then I can get cracking.
At some point I will need to get some steel pipe threaded to connect it all.
Does anybody have the kit to thread me a couple of lengths of steel pipe to 1" BSP. Rather than me buy a length and set about cutting and threading it, if somebody out there deals with it all the time and has the kit, maybe they could give me a price for three pieces of specific lengths (all less than a metre) cut to length and threaded 1" BSP at both ends?
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How soon do you need it Jules?
I think the 1" lengths I've got are 2.5m, 2.5m and 2.6m. I know I'll need a few lengths for the processor build but I won't need it all, and I've got the kit to cut it square and thread it.
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Do you need insulation for your square tank? I've got a load of sheets of 50mm polystyrene I paid a quid a sheet for (1200mm x 800mm).
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Hi Tony. I'm in no rush for the steel pipe - I will initially use some 1" hose to link the oil tank outlet to the processor. After that I can work out the exact lengths I need.
The Polystyrene would be good but I dont have enough gap for that around the tank. It was all designed with 25mm celotex in mind. Thank you for the offer though,
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hey jules quite an interesting build there, did you weld those sockets/pipes/heater onto the tank? nice job...
what size is that tank?
just a thought but as your valve isnt say on a cone bottom for crud drain you could till that tank help/aid draining... as say 2 inch across that size tank could mount to alot? is it a dewatering tank or good bio store? with it stood on a frame could of got a pipe welded underneath maybe? cut down on that dead zone...
but you deffo get the job of tiling my bathroom 8)
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I only asked about timing as I can't cut/thread the pipes until next week, anytime after that should be fine :) I know how urgent getting fuel production rolling again can be!
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hey jules quite an interesting build there, did you weld those sockets/pipes/heater onto the tank? nice job...
what size is that tank?
just a thought but as your valve isnt say on a cone bottom for crud drain you could till that tank help/aid draining... as say 2 inch across that size tank could mount to alot? is it a dewatering tank or good bio store? with it stood on a frame could of got a pipe welded underneath maybe? cut down on that dead zone...
but you deffo get the job of tiling my bathroom 8)
Thanks Rotary, yes I did put the sockets in. The 1.5" and 2 X 1" sockets and mig welded in. The immersion flange is soldered in.
I actually made the tank, it's a cut down and re-welded central heating oil tank - capacity is around 800 litres.
It is a bulk oil storage, dewatering an pre-heating tank - it doesn't hold bio. As such, I am not too worried about the small dead zone, especially as soon it will be heated by a central heating radiator laying on the bottom of the tank. The tank does slope very slightly towards the valves. The drain valve (1.5") is as close to the bottom as I can get it.
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I only asked about timing as I can't cut/thread the pipes until next week, anytime after that should be fine :) I know how urgent getting fuel production rolling again can be!
Thanks Tony.
No rush, the steel pipe will just be to link the oil tank to the processor.I will measure the lengths I need and let you know.
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Jules - at some point ill have space for my lathe here. Thatll do screw cutting.
I suspect youll want the parts before then, but something to bare in mind.
(i will mail you soon about the weekend - just not had time to compose a proper thank you yet! : )
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No probs mate - did you get the base or the rayburn done? I'm still waiting for the pictures to appear on facebook
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Changed our minds about the rayburn base. We put the unit into place, and it has to come out from the fireplace a bit. Dont really want a step coming out into the room, so are going over to the idea of tiling the whole floor (inc the fireplace) and then getting a lump of slate for the rayburn to sit on.
I did manage to re-install the biodiesel boiler on sunday though, and then make a 200 ltr batch of fuel heated from the other boiler. It was after 1am by the time i got it onto demeth, and went to bed... (to get up at 6:45 the next morning) - so i havent been slacking!
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Jules - at some point ill have space for my lathe here. Thatll do screw cutting.
Can it do tapered thread?
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narp.
if i had application for it, i could CNC it, but, without application, its not worth the bother.
This is the same as my lathe -
(http://karyt.com/image/cache/data/Machines%20For%20Sale_page2_image1-750x750.jpg)
My one is shinier though (but not too shiny mind - it does actually get used!)
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Ah OK, I ask because BSP threads on the end of tubing needs to be tapered to fit into the parallel sockets Jules will have on his valves and fittings. My die set does taper threads but it won't be as clean as a machined thread - my dies don't have a cam to release at the end of threading, so consequently there are a few sharp edges where the thread cutting stops. Not a big deal really though.
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Right!
TBH i know very little about cutting threads, and it sounds like you're more set up for it : )
(im pretty sure it goes without saying, but i wasnt trying to 'sell' jules a service - indeed, the lathe is 250 miles away at the moment anyhow)
Do you use your threading kit much? Im wondering if its one of those tools that you think will not get used much, but then youre on it all the time, or if it really just gets used once or twice and then forgotten about?
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Mostly gets left in its box to be honest! But when when you need it for building something it is very useful, once in a while.
It's not just the cost of the dies it's the pipe clamp that's needed as well, I think I spent more on the clamp than the dies... and then there's the tenner for the cutting compound, it all adds up, just for a bit of pipe threading.
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Tony overall does it work out cheaper than using copper pipe (if they're both 1" that is).
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Last time I ordered 3mm wall steel tubing, 42.4mm OD (equiv 1 1/4" BSP) was £3.51 per meter and 33.7mm OD (equiv 1" BSP) was £2.65 per meter. VAT inclusive. Steel, despite being a pain to fit, it definitely cheaper than copper. But it's also nice and strong :)
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I might just be rubbish with copper (well, i probably am) so one thing i do like about steel is the strength - once its done up with some ptfe, it does not seem to budge, no matter how abusive you are to it.
My plant has copper all over it - but one day i want to do it all in steel.
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I made a batch of bio today with the machine rebuilt in the new bund. It is all acid/water washed and is happily bubbling away now.
The insulation around the oil tank is all done (25mm celotex) and it has a lid with two hinged sections.
Back wall of the building is getting tanked and tiled tomorrow then I can move the chemicals into their correct position and will be well on the way to getting the place sorted out.
I just about got the bio done in time. Both vehicles are down to 1/4 tank and I only had about 40 litres in the storage tank.
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Well done mate, the pressures off now.
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The insulation around the oil tank is all done (25mm celotex) and it has a lid with two hinged sections.
Jules,
I need to insulate a large metal cupboard that im going to use for my pre-heat unit - i wanted to do it that way, so i could just stack metal tins of palm etc. in it and leave it over night.
Anyhow, i too need to insulate it, and sheet insulation will be so much easier than rockwool etc. I was going to use polystyrene, so im interested as to if you managed to get the celotex at a good price?
Thanks, Julian
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As I said above I've got a load of sheets of 50mm polystyrene 1200mmx800mm which I paid a quid each for, if you want some and can get them to you, I've got plenty spare :)
The disadvantage of hot cupboards in sheds is you'll get the police kicking your door in after they've been over the place with a helicopter and IR camera, because they think you'll be growing something you shouldn't ;)
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My cupboard will be so well insulated, itll appear stone cold in the IR camera : )
Im currently eyeing up this at wicks -
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/210823
(i can get 20% off at wicks, hence looking there)
I forgot that you have some, and appreciate the offer. If you were next door, id be real keen, but, with the distance...
Jules hasnt replied, but im wondering if the idea for using cellotex was bio melting polystyrene? Im not sure if it does though.
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That's a good point, as I'm pretty sure it does (melt it, that is).
In fact I saw an article that suggested melting polystyrene into biodiesel was a great way to up the energy available in the biodiesel, but I'm not convinced it's a good idea myself!
I shall be careful not to splash biodiesel around our extension, which currently has many of the aforementioned polystyrene sheets installed for insulation :)
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That's a good point, as I'm pretty sure it does (melt it, that is).
In fact I saw an article that suggested melting polystyrene into biodiesel was a great way to up the energy available in the biodiesel, but I'm not convinced it's a good idea myself!
I shall be careful not to splash biodiesel around our extension, which currently has many of the aforementioned polystyrene sheets installed for insulation :)
When I read that article, I tried a test with a expanded poly coffee cup...vanishes quickly!
I recall the mass doseage they talked of seemed huge by volume, given it's low density.
Didn't put any in a vehicle...new edge on ring gumming?
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Sorry I didn't reply - too busy tanking walls and tiling :) - The back wall of the building is done now - just needs grouting then I can move all the chemicals into their correct position and then reach the next wall.
The 25mm celotex cost me about £18 per sheet - not cheap but it was exactly what I wanted to use. Nice shiny metallic surface that is easy to wipe off and very efficient for it's thickness.
As it happens, I bought mine in Wickes
I never even thought of bio eating Polystyrene but it makes perfect sense. Glad I didn't go for that idea now.
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julian if you have a rgb building supplies anywhere near you their 25 mm celotex is £14.28 a sheet. jewsons is £13.85. jewsons is another make but basically the same stuff PIR. it is worth haggling. i brought 10 sheets to do the yurt roof. i just told them i could get it online for 13.75 and asked how close can you get to that price? after a lot of typing they came back with those prices.
http://www.rgbltd.co.uk/
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there's a jewsons local to me. i went in there as i wanted an endfeed fitting. it was about £4.90 ex, when screwfix was under £2 inc, for the same item!
i just assumed evreything at jewsons was a bit of a con
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That is quite annoying - I remember Bob telling me that when I saw him last - but I promptly forgot until he mentioned it here. There is a Jewson about 5 miles from me - which is much better than the Wickes which is 18 miles away in Plymouth (but I had to go there anyway to get some tools from Aldi).
Still - it is done now.
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The disadvantage of hot cupboards in sheds is you'll get the police kicking your door in after they've been over the place with a helicopter and IR camera, because they think you'll be growing something you shouldn't ;)
Our reactors / settling drums give off enough heat to raise suspicions as it is,
I've often wondered when the "knock on the door" will happen.