Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
General => Wiki and forum discussion => Topic started by: Julian on September 20, 2012, 07:58:46 PM
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When we started the wiki, we were adamant that we wanted its administration to be as transparent as possible. The same went for the forum which was initially intended to discuss matters arising from the wiki.
The forum has now attracted discussion beyond wiki matters by quite a few members, so it seems that the format, facilities and atmosphere must appeal. Upholding the desire for transparency, we'd like to advise the admins feelings on how the forum should be run and ask members to express their opinions, good or bad ...
We'd like to see the forum primarily dedicated to anything connected to biodiesel and veg oil use. Other matters such as music, DIY, general car repairs and it's the cats birthday etc, etc should be discussed on a more suitable platform.
We'd like to see new ideas and processes discussed and tested not dismissed out of hand, even if they do seem a bit whacky.
We'd like to see more members contributing to the wiki, as a means of preserving and disseminating our collective knowledge.
We'd like to see humour and banter in the posts, within reason.
We are adamant that the wiki will remain noncommercial. As will the forum, but some mention of commercial operations will be permitted at the admins discretion.
We (really Tony) have the ability to make small modifications to the forum software or add features which are offered as addons. We'd welcome any suggestions as to improvements and changes members would like to see made. We can't promise to implement every or any suggestion but we will do our best.
Suggest away!
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The problem I see is that limiting discussion to bio and veg related topics could make for a slow moving and dry forum, but it would be purer for it.
In my mind, there really is not a great deal to say about veg oil, and anyone interested enough can find what they want to know without asking anything, bar a few odd questions. ( I will do a filtering piece for the wiki, this weekend hopefully)
Bio is far more involved than veg, but most things have been covered time and again. If anyone posts a new processor build, or has a problem, there is never any shortage of people to answer, no matter how the forum is organised and anything new and exiting seems to be taken up and discussed quickly.
However, I do agree that having a section for car repairs etc, would dilute the forum, but it may help keep it moving.
Saying that, if I was in the position of admin, I would want to keep the topics limited as well.
I think there ought to be a members only area, maybe there already is, it wouldn't suprise me if i hadn't noticed it.
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I think you need to reach a balance, if its all just about veg/bio then it becomes a bit slow. If you have a general chat section that things can be put into it would be good.
I agree with not brow beating members when they suggest a different way to do things.
Oh and more SMILIES PLEASE ;D ;D
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Agreed, got to have the balance right, I think we all like it light hearted with the odd well meant jibe.
I don't think we should ever take ourselves too seriously, or lose touch with the fact that this is a hobby and supposed to be fun! And for most of us, part of the fun is understanding and experimenting, which is what it should always remain about. I would hate for someone to be made to feel stupid for suggesting something, that, to them, makes sense. Some of the best inventions in history are by accident so even the daftest suggestions could end up surprising us. :)
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I think the balance it the moment is about right . It's good that we all have experimenting frame of mind but as the members grow then the mix of people change as does the dynamics of the forum changes so we will maybe have to see how things go but for now I think it about right
Paul
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hmmm very dificult this one i think, from what you say the admins need / want i think you have that already so change nothing.
variety is the spice of life and brings with it a community where bonds and friends are made aswell as ideas and thoughts get placed on the drawing board and persued and made, 100 heads are better than 2. but with that comes all manner of folk.
no if whats seen is liked then i think the job your doing is very good.
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We should probably also bear in mind that probably most of the serious arguments on VOD have started in off-topic threads and we really don't need that.
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I think the balance is about right on here at the moment.
I think that we do need to keep topics 'on topic' though as said above.
It can be frustrating to start reading a topic about something you are interested in and then for it to wander off for two pages before you find another post regarding the original topic.
Good point about the Wiki too. Once you put your mind to it, making a page is actually pretty easy as I discovered.
I now use the Wiki as my primary source of reference as it is so quick to access and search compared to either this forum or the VOD one.
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Just a quick one , is it possible to do a wiki page on a iPhone as this is my main Internet access ( not enough hours in the day to switch on a pc
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No reason why not, though typing content might be painful vs a "proper" PC. But even if you deliver the content and it needs formatting/tidying any of the other editors would be happy to do that.
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Just looking at the main page and couldn't find anything on acid esterification do you think it's something people would be interested in, if so i could try and get something down when my bricklaying job comes to a end.
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I think that would be great.
I thought about it a couple of times but the processor materials issue has always put me off.
If you need any graphics doing, give me a shout.
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Trying to control how a forum runs must become increasingly difficult the larger the participating membership becomes, so I see why starting off on the right foot is so important. Not so sure it is actually possible to be too controlling if you want the right people, these things often find themselves and change as circumstances and times change.
Having a core membership/admins who are bothered how a forum runs must be preferable to having an 'owner' whose only goal is to make money and big-up their company or product with admins trying to mold it to their own ideals.
This little forum seems fine, I would be wary of making too many changes.
One thing net forums can be great for is organising pickups and distribution of goods for other members - something which VOD can sometimes do well at, yet I feel as in so many other respects it is a small core who are the ones who feel they are to benefit from this, which I'm sure isn't altogether true but a result of the creeping them and us feeling over there.
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as we have 5 new members joined tonight ... welcome everyone!
Now might be a goods time to bump this thread and get some additional opinions.
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I for one like the purity of the site and that it is more information based and lacking the aggression found on some posts
on the VOD site long may it continue
I may be able to contribute to the site with a full repair guide for the Clarke CEB102 pump and TAM105
My son will have to take the pictures for me and as I am computer literate will need some help as to posting
Richard
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I for one like the purity of the site and that it is more information based and lacking the aggression found on some posts
on the VOD site long may it continue
I may be able to contribute to the site with a full repair guide for the Clarke CEB102 pump and TAM105
My son will have to take the pictures for me and as I am computer literate will need some help as to posting
Richard
Nice one Richard. Never seen the innards of a CEB pump before :) Of course several of us would be quite happy to assist with creating new wiki pages - it's not as daunting as it first seems.
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Tony
What may not be daunting to some may be insurmountable to others
Richard
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Tony
What may not be daunting to some may be insurmountable to others
Richard
I couldn't get my head around it, I did try, but I'm better with my hands than my head.
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It might be worth creating a 'forum charter' type page where everything that's allowed/not allowed on the forum is listed in plain english.
You could have rules on topics such as: Must be at least one of 1) bio/veg related 2) technical 3) of benefit to the membership. Or something along those lines.
You could also spell out the general 'ethos' of the forum, how and why moderators are selected and the steps for disciplining members.
If it's all set out and up front then no one can argue and everyone can see that it's fair. (Or not! :P)
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It might be worth creating a 'forum charter' type page where everything that's allowed/not allowed on the forum is listed in plain english.
You could have rules on topics such as: Must be at least one of 1) bio/veg related 2) technical 3) of benefit to the membership. Or something along those lines.
You could also spell out the general 'ethos' of the forum, how and why moderators are selected and the steps for disciplining members.
If it's all set out and up front then no one can argue and everyone can see that it's fair. (Or not! :P)
That's not a bad idea, but the last thing we want is to look dictatorial. On the other hand it probably helps if people know where they stand ... difficult one!
We already have this page on the wiki ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Site_guidelines which covers the basics, but if people are going to use the forum more generally rather than to discuss the wiki, perhaps it needs to be made more forum specific.
If I've got the gist of things the general feeling of replies to this thread was not to stick too religiously to just Bio or veg topics.
As for choosing admin, that's been a bit hit and miss! Tony set up the site, so obviously he needed to be admin to do so. He put a link in his signature on the VOD and said no more. Chug and I noticed the link, signed up as members and started exploring. Tony then had to go away for a period, so made Chug and myself Admin to look after things in his absence. (baptism of fire in my case!).
That's the way it stayed for some while. Between the three of us we discussed what we thought the wiki should achieve, how we felt it should be run and, along with others, started to put together the first pages. I have to say that we were all pretty much of one mind on most subjects and the fact that there were three of us meant that we never had a stalemate if there was a rare difference of opinion.
Between us we I believe we had a good mix of talent ... Tony excels on the software side, Chug has years of experience with veg and Bio and was involved in original Biodiesel Tutorial, and I can err, well, draw pictures reasonably well!
We felt that the admin needed broadening so got the two Keiths on-board. Keef, Keith expanded the veg knowledge side of things and KH, Keith with good Bio experience and a mind for experimenting had been a regular user and contributor from early on. Both seem to offer balanced and fair view point (well, most of the time at least) and have subsequently made major and valued contributions.
I'd like to think that collectively we've done a reasonable job to date, but that's not really for us to judge.
Was there a reason for asking how mods are selected? Have we made a hash of things to the point where we deserve to be sacked?
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I have no reason to criticise the current admin and moderation team. As far as I can tell you're all doing a jolly fine job.
I'm just thinking long term - I can't imagine that you'll all want to stay in the current positions eternally. Perhaps it's a question that doesn't really apply to this kind of forum. Certainly on busier ones there's normally several power hungry individuals who put themselves forward for moderation roles. And then cock it up.
As for seeming dictatorial - I agree it is a tough one. However, I have seen what's happened to VOD over the years for being a 'free for all'. It's very easy to relax rules - it's much harder to tighten them when things get out of hand (which they inevitably will) without causing a ruckus.
So I tend to lean towards the opinion of making it clear what will and won't be allowed. You could just state an 'ethos' that the membership should abide by. Those that don't will have legs removed etc etc.
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I'm very Douglas Adam's when it comes to power. In that those that really want it probably shouldn't have it.
Misquote edit:
"I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?"
(How many of you get that reference?) :)
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There's a refreshing difference on this forum. I've also noticed that members posting on here, aren't the ones who jump on any new idea on VOD!
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I've also noticed that members posting on here, aren't the ones who jump on any new idea on VOD!
Yet ! they are on the way.... the end is nigh ! !
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Could you have a vetting system instead of an automatic registration. Would be more time consuming. I was looking at a recently highlighted site today (in USA) - I see that you have to apply to the administrator to join - a form of selection??
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What, you mean like ...
Do you have a wealthy, unmarried sister between the ages of 18 and 65, living within a 10 mile radius of any of the admin?
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I'm very Douglas Adam's when it comes to power. In that those that really want it probably shouldn't have it.
Misquote edit:
"I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?"
(How many of you get that reference?) :)
Douglas Adams, I (mis)quote him regularly, few folk I know seem to get it.
Agree, politicians would definitely be better chosen that way too.
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Could you have a vetting system instead of an automatic registration. Would be more time consuming. I was looking at a recently highlighted site today (in USA) - I see that you have to apply to the administrator to join - a form of selection??
Spoke too soon :-(
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I'm very Douglas Adam's when it comes to power. In that those that really want it probably shouldn't have it.
We clearly need grammar police, muhahaha! Seroiusly,,,, I think open mindedness is they key precept in the BP ethos.
The other day, I imagined a scenario whereby, say ten years ago (a withered Phython-esque toothless crone soothsayer bint) suggested that I would make a 'thing' out of mainly scrap that would mean I would not ever need to buy fuel, unless on holiday in France.