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General => Wiki and forum discussion => Topic started by: julesandtash on September 17, 2012, 09:20:21 PM

Title: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on September 17, 2012, 09:20:21 PM
Hi all,
There seems to be an increase in discussion on glycerol logs recently on VOD, Maybe that is due to the onset of winter.
Anyway, I was thinking of writing a Wiki page on them with a few photos.

Do people think this is a good plan and which category should I list it under?
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: K.H on September 17, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Good idea,i would say list it under "finishing" as bar soap is in there already,i might have some pics of a log maker i made if they are of any use?
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 17, 2012, 09:51:58 PM
Glog page is a great idea, Jules.

We have a Glycerol page in the chemicals section which mentions disposal and we also have soap making in the finishing section.  I think the Glycerol page could do with amending to mention soap making and Glycerol logs with appropriate links.

Personally I don't think we want too many sections, but what are peoples views on having a Miscellaneous section as a sort of catchall for this and other pages that are difficult to home.

I can do you some pics of logs in carpet tubes, and one of my recently and beautifully installed log burner in full flame!


Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: K.H on September 17, 2012, 09:58:12 PM
Miscellaneous sounds like a good idea,i intend doing a page on that melting stick,so that would be a good place to put it.
That log burner,has it got a building around it? or is it just sat out in the open?
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 17, 2012, 10:22:58 PM
With remarks like that I'm tempted to suggest where you can put your melting stick, however as it's a piece of equipment I think the "Processors and equipment" section would be considerably less painful.

Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 17, 2012, 10:42:48 PM
God, I amaze myself some times ... there we go, a new category, "Miscellaneous," created and soap making move into it.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: K.H on September 17, 2012, 10:51:10 PM
Careful you don't dislocate something patting yourself on the back
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Tony on September 18, 2012, 09:00:48 AM
Sounds like a good idea to me.  max.print was over yesterday explaining about how to get them to burn properly and an interesting technique for mixing sawdust and glyc in bulk :)
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 18, 2012, 02:20:57 PM
Sounds like a good idea to me.  max.print was over yesterday explaining about how to get them to burn properly and an interesting technique for mixing sawdust and glyc in bulk :)

Either ...
And I'm not going to share it with anyone.

Or ...
And this is the method he described ...

Some of us are Glog novices and need all the info we can get!
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Tony on September 18, 2012, 02:35:13 PM
Well, I wouldn't want to steal his thunder so I'll leave it for him to divulge the details *nudge nudge eh max.print*? :)

"Glog" I like that!
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Keef on September 18, 2012, 10:17:45 PM
It's not my idea and I'm sure you must have seen it on the VOD Julian ..... Mix it in a cement mixer then store the fairly dry mix in an old dustbin and make up the glogs (I like that too) as you need them.

The trick for getting it to burn cleanly seems to be getting your fire good and hot before you shove on the first glog.
 
We're going to experiment this year with just putting the mix into bags (is that a glag?)

Oh, nearly forgot  ;D
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 19, 2012, 11:03:09 AM
Oh, a little disappointed! I was expecting some new revelation in making Glogs.  I used to have a cement mixer ... didn't I Mark? ... so I could use that to mix.

I've got a cunning plan for making logs, the machine for which I've yet to construct.  If it works, I'll share the idea.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 19, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Got some photos for you, Jules.  This is fairly heavily soaked, course hardwood shavings in a length of carpet core.

This is at about 10 mins ...

(http://www.biopowered.co.uk/w/images/8/86/Glog_at_circa_10_mins.JPG)

and the same log at about 30 mins ...

(http://www.biopowered.co.uk/w/images/5/5e/Glog_at_circa_30_mins.JPG)

I had to take the photos with the door open because The flash reflected on the glass window.  You can see how just the gasses from the the log are burning.  With the door closed the gas spreads the width of the burner and combusts in the secondary air.

It makes one hell of a difference using Glycerol that has no 7% water wash it it!

Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Tony on September 20, 2012, 08:59:05 AM
When I've tried burning glyc + sawdust I've always had it leak out of the bottom of whatever it's burning in.  This looks pretty clean.  I'm beginning to think I mixed my glyc logs up too rich.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Keef on September 20, 2012, 09:11:29 AM
That can also be caused by poor mixing especially if you're using solid glyc. If you don't mix it really well you can end up with pockets of pure glyc (which can be as big as a cricket ball) which melt out when on the fire. Ideally, getting your glyc liquid before you satrt is the way to go.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 20, 2012, 09:36:36 AM
I think it helps if the Glycerol has had a few weeks to soak into the sawdust.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on September 21, 2012, 09:39:40 AM
I melt all of my solid stuff and strain through a sieve before putting in the mixer which avoids the issue with balls of glyc.
Here are some pics of mine:

Logs before burning - one is a carpet tube, one is a wine box cut in half, two are toilet roll tubes (make good firelighters actually) and one is the box from some gift tags
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Woodburner/SAM_2406.jpg)

Here are a couple burning on the log burner
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Woodburner/SAM_2412.jpg)

My dog benefitting from the warmth - you can see the flames in the burner
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Woodburner/SAM_2415.jpg)

And a glycerol log (carpet tube variety) keeping us warm at the Cornish BBB
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Cornish%20BBB%202012/SAM_0005.jpg)
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: chariot on September 22, 2012, 08:50:36 PM
I have a supply of palm oil mix, which solidifies under 18-20C. This provides a lot more heat output than glycerol, but needs a higher temperature to burn cleanly. I make up various mixes of oil and glycerol logs from 80/20 to 20/80 which once marked can then be chosen according to the weather. Our only heat source is the woodburner until I plumb in a rudimentary ch and dhw system which runs off solar thermal tubes and an old heating boiler in the shed and/or a garden furnace with a Baxi heat exchanger sat in it.

It's very useful to be able to choose a selsction of 'logs' according to the temperature or how hot we want to be on any particular evening.

Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Head Womble on September 22, 2012, 10:33:19 PM
.  I used to have a cement mixer ... didn't I Mark? ... so I could use that to mix.

Ok, Ok, I'll get it back to you soon as.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 22, 2012, 10:35:49 PM
.  I used to have a cement mixer ... didn't I Mark? ... so I could use that to mix.

Ok, Ok, I'll get it back to you soon as.

Only mucking about ... when do you think you'll get the last bit of concreting done?
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Head Womble on September 22, 2012, 10:44:32 PM
I'm not sure mate, I have a big list of jobs and it's on there somewhere, but it keeps getting moved down.
What I've got left to do can be done by hand so I'll get the mixer back to you.

I'd hate to be the reason why you can't finish your extention.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 22, 2012, 11:55:23 PM
Don't you start!
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 23, 2012, 12:27:42 PM
I've updated the Glycerol page to mention soap making, composting and Glogs.  T avoid an opphen link I started the Glycerol logs page here ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/w/index.php?title=Glycerine_logs&action=submit  with my photos as place markers.

Jules, delete my photos as you see fit.  To get yours to operate in wiki format you'll need to upload them to the wiki here ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Special:Upload (hope I'm not teaching Granny to suck eggs!)
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on September 23, 2012, 08:52:47 PM
I've done some work on the Glycerol logs page - it is in no way finished but it's getting there.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 23, 2012, 09:46:31 PM
Looking good, could do with a read through (Ha, there's me saying that!) once it's all together.

Might be worth mentioning that use on open fires should be avoided and to be aware of any Methanol fumes that may emanate from the Glycerin.

I've just lobbed no a couple of logs I made at the beginning of the summer from 7% wash glycerin and, having sat for the summer, don't seem to burn too badly.  Not as well at the non wash, but OK.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on September 23, 2012, 09:57:53 PM
I have mentioned about Methanol fumes if using non demethed glyc.

I dont see that I can say dont use them on open fires though when I did just that for a year or so - I had no dramas with leaking glyc and no problems with fumes.

I think that providing there was a decent fire burning the vast amount of air going up through the chimney drew any fumes with it. A smouldering fire would be a different matter of course.

I have had the wood burner going since 2pm today and burned 10 logs.
I didn't use any wood or fire lighters at all. Just some screwed up paper, then small toilet roll tube logs then, once it as burning, onto the big logs.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on September 23, 2012, 10:08:03 PM
Sorry, only skipped through, I must have missed the fumes bit.

I think we should steer people in the right/safest direction, if not for their sake, then ours.  Even if we don't always pratice what we preach.

Just about to try draining glycerin directly into sawdust ... my working space in the shed is down to around 2 x 3 foot, so it's going to be fun.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on September 23, 2012, 10:11:24 PM
Here you go, it was under the Mixing section....

Whatever method is used, it should be remembered that the 'Glycerine' from biodiesel processing contains a number of potentially harmful chemicals and should not really be handled without gloves. If the Glycerine has not had the Methanol removed, there is the added risk of Methanol vapour being given off, therefore mixing should be carried out in a well ventilated space (ideally outside).

I take your point about recommending best practice. I will get something in about the risks of using them on open fires, Chimneas etc.

Good luck with tonights efforts in the shed - take care.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on October 01, 2012, 07:53:51 PM
I've just tried some glycerol and saw dust compressed into a shallow cat foot tin.  Burns ok once up to temperature, but over the last half hour it's erupted, lava like to double its original volume!
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Keef on October 01, 2012, 08:22:59 PM
I've just tried some glycerol and saw dust compressed into a shallow cat foot tin.

Where on earth do you buy tinned cat's feet?
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Tony on October 01, 2012, 08:30:56 PM
I've just tried some glycerol and saw dust compressed into a shallow cat foot tin.

Where on earth do you buy tinned cat's feet?

When you're saving for a new set of valves sometimes you've got to make certain sacrifices.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on October 01, 2012, 08:53:14 PM
Look, dhe t ant dhe d are quide close dogedher on dhe keyboart, so when you're as dick as me you somedimes make misdakes, OK?
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Tony on October 01, 2012, 10:00:23 PM
Grandpa's been at the rum again
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: K.H on October 01, 2012, 10:10:18 PM
Grandpa's been at the rum again
Dick as me? that says it all
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Tony on January 24, 2013, 10:51:22 AM
Good work on keeping the page up to date, nice pictures!

Now, lets see if I can find any takers :)

http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/free-glycerine-to-make-glycerine-logs-glogs-for-woodburner-free-heat/1007795289
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on January 24, 2013, 11:42:27 AM
Good work on keeping the page up to date, nice pictures!

Now, lets see if I can find any takers :)

http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/free-glycerine-to-make-glycerine-logs-glogs-for-woodburner-free-heat/1007795289

Might have luck on freecycle with a similar add.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Tony on January 24, 2013, 11:55:27 AM
Oh yeah freecycle, good plan.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julianf on January 24, 2013, 03:20:52 PM
When I've tried burning glyc + sawdust I've always had it leak out of the bottom of whatever it's burning in.  This looks pretty clean.  I'm beginning to think I mixed my glyc logs up too rich.

Youve got to remember that the glyc will go liquid again on the fire.  So, if your dust is not fine and / or wont wick / absorb the liquid, its going to go somewhere.

When i started, i got all sorts of scary stuff dripping out the bottom.  I changed to much finer dust and became less enthusiastic about the amount of glyc i could get rid of, and all was fine.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on January 24, 2013, 05:01:15 PM
Jules ...

Photos as promised

(http://www.biopowered.co.uk/w/images/b/b5/Glog_-_compacting.JPG)

Could make a note about removing the plastic spout.



(http://www.biopowered.co.uk/w/images/a/aa/Glog_-_tetra-pak_taped.JPG)

I find taping the packs closed reduces the likelyhood of gunk dropping while carrying through the house.  Similarly I often wrap carpet cores in newspaper for the same reason.

Use as you see fit.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on January 24, 2013, 06:18:13 PM
Thankyou, have you uploaded them to the Wiki or can I access directly from here?

What do you think of the Glogs page now, I was quite pleased with my efforts.

I want to add a picture of the ash left after a fire for the final paragraph and possibly a picture of some stacked up round logs for the storage section
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on January 24, 2013, 06:29:35 PM
They are uploaded to the wiki ... look at "Recent changes" or "Special pages", "Gallery of new files" or right click, properties for file name.

Page is looking great, well done.  Photos make a page so much more interesting.

New additions sound really good.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on January 24, 2013, 10:02:56 PM
Your pics are on the Wiki page now. I have a nice fire going at the moment. Hopefully in the morning there will be lots of ash for me to take a photo of and upload
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on January 24, 2013, 10:39:52 PM
Just had a read and I think it's excellent.

A good addition might be ... when burning tree logs and when cooking oil is over heated.

I took the liberty of correcting Tetra Pak a couple of times ... there's no c in it.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on January 24, 2013, 10:51:29 PM
If you Google Glycerine logs, your page comes up top slot ... must be doing something right!
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on January 24, 2013, 11:14:00 PM
You can call me the SEO King from here if you wish  :)
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on January 24, 2013, 11:22:11 PM
You can call me the SEO King from here if you wish  :)

I can't imagine there's too much competition for something that has no profit and is a right royal pain in the backside to make.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Tony on January 25, 2013, 09:27:00 AM
If you google Glycerol logs, this thread appears on the first page of results... though not the top link ;)
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on January 25, 2013, 10:20:55 AM
Not too bad for an amateur then?
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: Julian on January 26, 2013, 10:25:24 PM
You can call me the SEO King from here if you wish  :)

Not too bad for an amateur then?

Jim's popped in this evening ... you could ask to borrow his trumpet.
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: 1958steveflying on January 26, 2013, 10:48:55 PM
You can call me the SEO King from here if you wish  :)

Not too bad for an amateur then?

Jim's popped in this evening ... you could ask to borrow his trumpet.

Noooooo, please tell me the trumpet has stayed over at VOD ! !
Title: Re: Wiki page for glycerol logs
Post by: julesandtash on January 27, 2013, 08:30:18 PM
You will be proud to know that I am not trumpet authorised.

I am just in the process of uploading some pictures of the ash for a glyc logs fire to complete the page though