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Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: nigelb on December 27, 2020, 06:12:27 PM

Title: Eductors
Post by: nigelb on December 27, 2020, 06:12:27 PM
How well will an eductor made for a 60 lpm leo perform when piped into a system with a 110 lpm jgs "big yellow" pump?

Ta!
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: dgs on December 27, 2020, 08:33:52 PM
How well will an eductor made for a 60 lpm leo perform when piped into a system with a 110 lpm jgs "big yellow" pump?

Ta!

The yellow/black pump probably won't deliver anything like 110lpm. Any idea what the nozzle diameter is in the eductor Nige.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: Julian on December 27, 2020, 09:40:53 PM
We are talking eductor aren't we ... the device that mixes within the tank and not a venturi?

If eductor, can't help.

If venturi, it will work just fine.  I ran a Frankinpump on a venturi designed for a Leo for many years until the cast lead somehow got dislodged.  I needed a replacement in a hurry so I cobbled up a simple orifice plate with no throat etc and it works as well as the 4 port venturi I spent days making!
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: nigelb on December 28, 2020, 12:27:04 AM
Yep...definatly talking eductor. It's one that pops made but it's for a leo (60).
I'll measure the nozzle tomorrow. No point in fitting it if it aint gonna work. It belonged to Curry-oil -king before he packed in a few ago.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: Julian on December 28, 2020, 01:26:04 AM
I'd get rid f it.

If the pump is bigger than the one before try doing what I've done for some while ... just run the pump for a couple of minutes every hour or so, three or four times.

This with Dave's ambient processing save a whole heap of 'letric.  It works perfectly well and I cringe when I think back to the days of heating the batch to 60° C and running the pump for two or three hours!
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: nigelb on December 28, 2020, 11:34:48 AM
Interesting....how low can you go with ambient processing? I made a batch yesterday @40c using NaOH for stage 1 and ASM for stage 2. Mixed the whole lot for about an hour.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: Julian on December 28, 2020, 01:36:46 PM
When it's down to mid to lower teens, I'll give it a little heat.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: Jamesrl on December 28, 2020, 02:05:52 PM
How well will an eductor made for a 60 lpm leo perform when piped into a system with a 110 lpm jgs "big yellow" pump?

Ta!

It should work fine Nige, the pump pressure will increase and give a better mix ratio. Is it a 2 stage Eductor, if so it'll certainly boost mix?
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: dgs on December 29, 2020, 05:14:39 PM
Interesting....how low can you go with ambient processing? I made a batch yesterday @40c using NaOH for stage 1 and ASM for stage 2. Mixed the whole lot for about an hour.

Nige, there doesn't seem to be a lower limit as regards processing temperature. I've reacted outside at this time of year in cubies at no more than 5degs, it works fine. The glyc just takes longer to drop.

Re your eductor; Jim is the expert but this is just what I have found. I used to use a pump the same as yours, didn't realise how poor it was until I changed it for a puisi panther, so maybe if it will drive your eductor it will be an improvement. Trouble is with a really weak pump the eductor puts such a resistance on the delivery pressure it can almost be counter productive.

The tam120 is such a beast (1500w) and with an undrilled eductor the delivery pressure was 71psi, (sounded like a steam coffee maker) so on Jim's advise I drilled out the nozzle to 8.5mms which reduced the pressure to 31psi. Using Julians method I mix 4 times at only 2 mins per go every hour and this achieves the same conversion as pumping continuously for 1 hour.

I realise this seems strange but I think there is still a lot we still have to learn about efficient mixing. The cubie method that I described above is probably the strangest that outlines this mixing conundrum. 15 litres of oil in a cubie, 2.5 litres of methanol plus 150gms KOH. Hold the cubie horizontal, shake really hard from side to side for 10secs. Wait 15 mins and repeat the shaking, then repeat after another 15mins.

So a total of 30 seconds mixing. 10/90 after glyc has settled gives the same as if pumped for 1 hour. Probably something to do with the way its shaken, you can really smash the liquid from one end to the other.  Who needs processors, pumps, eductors or temperature increase.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: Julian on December 29, 2020, 05:25:03 PM
  Who needs processors, pumps, eductors or temperature increase.

I keep saying it ... this guy had it right all along     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWAthSmJ6Nc
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: nigelb on December 29, 2020, 11:43:10 PM
What do you mean by a weak pump?
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: dgs on December 30, 2020, 10:27:26 AM
What do you mean by a weak pump?

It's closed impeller, anything with a hint of thickness, gloop, glycerol etc slows it up considerably. I put up with mine for years thinking it was the 'norm' before I changed it.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: nigelb on December 30, 2020, 02:38:06 PM
I can see where processing at ambient temps will be an issue with a closed impellor pump. Maybe I shouldnt go there but continue with methods I've always employed.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: dgs on December 30, 2020, 05:01:45 PM
Just take the temp down little by little, so you are happy. I used my yellow/black pump when I still did reactions at 60degs.

Why not get a used 120, you only have to use it 8 mins per stage, so the 1500 watts isn't an issue. I know I use mine with an eductor but it certainly doesn't need one with the power it has.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: nigelb on December 31, 2020, 12:31:44 AM
Interesting....Dave you process at ambient with an eductor with intermittent mixing. Do you employ the same methods Julian?
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: dgs on December 31, 2020, 01:08:32 PM
Interesting....Dave you process at ambient with an eductor with intermittent mixing. Do you employ the same methods Julian?

Yes I do Nige, tam120 with eductor, 2 mins mixing x 4 times. Last night it was -8 here so if I were to do a process today I may heat to 15degs or so, but most of the time no heat at all. I think Julian uses his pump for less time than myself.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: PD1 on December 31, 2020, 03:27:42 PM
I’ve been trying to find details on the occasional mixing method , it sounds interesting, can anyone point me to a link , and what actually is an inductor? I’m assuming some kind of diffuser , has anyone got a pic please
My last two batches I’ve reduced the temperature to about 40 degrees , and it seems to work just as well, I know Neisel reacts at ambient temperature, but doesn’t make bio in the winter .
I’m all up for using less electricity !
Paul
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: dgs on December 31, 2020, 04:26:14 PM
Here you go;

http://biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3092.0

Hey Nige, look at post No12 in the link, turns out I was slagging off the yellow/black pump 2 1/2 years ago.
Title: Re: Eductors
Post by: PD1 on January 01, 2021, 01:43:11 AM
Brilliant, thank you
Paul