Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: dgs on December 27, 2018, 05:43:14 PM
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I have recently bought myself one of these and just got the thing fired up over the last 2 days. As well as heating the bio room I am hoping to use it directed at the tank cones (plastic) for heating up the oil/bio.
The extra heat I need on the processor cone will be minimal as I process at ambient in summer and at this time of year I heat the oil to 25degs only.
The main use of electric is in the drying process (as I water wash) where the bio is heated up to 60degs. before anyone says "DON'T USE HEAT ON A PLASTIC TANK" my drying tank is made from a special plastic that apparently can withstand 120degs C. I will see over the next few weeks what temperature the bio can be heated to in the wash/drying tank using the Planer heater.
I had it running for 5 hours today on max and it used about 2 litres of kerosene. I will have to try a bio/kero mix in the near future.
When I get the installation tidied up I will take some photo's and report on its' reliability as things progress, but so far so good.
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Dave, do you mean this type of thing?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Car-Heater-5KW-12V-Air-Diesels-Heater-Parking-Heater-With-Remote-Control-LCD-Monitor-for-RV/32963215231.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.191.5db3212cnuZR6w&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10130_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10192_10190_453_10084_454_10083_10618_10307_10820_10301_10821_538_10303_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=a40aa6f8-4f89-4cd4-b5c4-24c93f842687-28&algo_pvid=a40aa6f8-4f89-4cd4-b5c4-24c93f842687
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Yes Julian, thats the one. Supplied in different colours. Mine is black and although they are advertised as 2,3 and 8KWS apparantly they are all the same output.
It took about 7 working days to come but I did order one that had a Manchester location. It had a Cathay Pacific sticker on it so where it actually came from is anyones guess.
kept going out to cut logs today and when I went back into the bio room I was reminded of the Summer heat again, Beautiful.
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Interesting, let me know how you get on as a friend has just ordered one to heat his old boat.
He's been heating it electrically at night and puts lots of pounds into a shared meter at the boatyard which doesn't last long. If he can run one of those diluted with bio I would be very happy to gift him bio to keep his heating costs down as he's on something of budget (works long hours cleaning garages to make ends meet).
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Will do Tony, had another warm day today with it blowing away merrily!
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didn't chug run of of those on a bio mix ? think his was an eberspacher... the chinese ones are copies of them?
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Ran my eber on different mixes of bio and it was ok with 25% or less but anymore and I found it sooted up and smoked, I now use heating oil and give it a minute or so on max before shutting down and it was quite clean last time I looked.
I know a bloke who fitted a planer to his transit a month or so back and he's chuffed with it so far.
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OK so if I give this guy bio, 25% max blend with diesel? But on pure heating oil it's OK so long as it has a hot blast at the end.
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Out of interest, how much power does it draw? A glow plug must use a fair chunk (~10A?).
I'm thinking that for this chap's boat a split charge system would be the way to go, otherwise it might not start after a night of heating.
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The Planer and Eber work in slightly different ways so I'm sure the amount of bio that can be blended into either fuel will be different.
On start up mine draws about 10 amps as you suggest an d settles down to about 3 to 4 when running at about 50%. I just leave a trickle charger on the battery all the time.
Today is day 8 of using it, although it isn't switched on all the time and sometimes it is on tick-over, using about 1/6th of a litre of kero/hour.
I always give it a 10min blast on full before switch off if it has been on low heat.
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The little glow plug inside - do you know if that is used only for initial ignition or is it on all the time?
Edit: this video answered that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YthaCqkMOs
Looks like 9A at startup then just over 1A when running.
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Day Number 11 and the heater is operating very well. I haven't tried it on a bio blend yet.
Did a process yesterday with 196 litres of oil. Starting temperature of the oil was 7degs, using the heater output on the cone together with the immersion for only 15mins I managed to get the temperature up to 26degs in 2 1/2 hours.
The warm methoxide did add to the temperature rise but only a little. I only used 600gms KOH in 20 litres of methanol at about 6degs. the ASM added does not contribute to any temperature rise.
I also used Julians idea of intermittant use of the pump which is a big saving of electric.
In the next couple of days I will see what temperature rise I can achieve with the planer heater directed at the wash tank cone.
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Interesting stuff Dave. As you know, I’m trying to do most of my processing and glyc washing using no additional heat at all. So for me, it’s the drying that requires the use of the immersion. I wonder what temperature your heater will manage to put into the wet bio prior to bubbling?
I normally heat the bio and bubble until cold, but this takes two or three cycles of heating and bubbling to get it dry. Using the heater, you can maintain the temperature and hopefully do the drying in one operation (I never leave the elements switched on whilst bubbling. Safety reasons aside, I’ve found that the hot element burns holes in the air pipe as it dangles in the processor)
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Hi David, isn't heating your bio up 3 times to dry it an uneconomical use of electric. It's the heating up that uses the energy, once up to temp it doesn't take much to maintain it.
I've also found that below 40degs there is minimal (if any) drying taking place, even using the turbo dryer. Remember I did those tests last Summer to try and dry at ambient.
I do leave the immersion on whilst drying. I have the choice of 1 or 3 kws and usually opt for the 1kw which turns itself off/on at about 55degs. My drying tube is copper where it passes the element.
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Hi Dave,
Now I stop to think about it, you are of course correct. Just shows how we can get into the habit of doing something and not pause to consider there might be an alternative / better way!
Do you have a ballpark figure for how long a batch takes to dry in one session at a constantish 55C? That’s what I will do with my next batch (might even redry my current batch - I’ve only put 25 litres of it in my car and the rest is still in the processor.)
I’d never considered using anything other than plastic aquarium piping for carrying the dried air through the bio to the bottom of the cone, and I suffered a few perforations when (however carefully I tried to position it) the tubing came into contact with the hot element. I have a roll of copper brakeline tubing in my garage, so I will knock something up out of that - maybe just the lower section that runs past the elements in the processor.
Kind regards
David
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Hi David, here is a table which shows water/time using the turbo dryer. I would say if you have heated your batch 3x it will be more than dry enough.
Time Bio temperature r/h-sensor temperature-sensor water s/b
start 65degs 50% 26.3 860ppm
+1 hour 66degs 42% 27.4 400ppm
+2 hours 66degs 36% 27.5 180ppm
+3 hours 67degs 30% 28.5 130ppm
+4 hours 67degs 28% 29.0 120ppm
Remember that the drying works exponentially v time. Years ago I dried a batch to 50ppm, it took 13 hours to get down to that level.
Today I dried my latest batch. According to info from the net 200 litres of bio would heat up at 4degs per hour using 1kw. Using the Planer in conjunction with the 1kw immersion I got a rise in temperature of 10degs/hour which I suppose means the Planer is heating the bio at least as much as the immersion.
Not very scientific I know but if correct the saving on drying a 200 litre batch is something like 5kw hours.
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Day 29 and the heater is working faultlessly. It has used 40 litres of kerosene and been on around 7 hours per day at settings of around 50%. The bio room is now around 25degs during the day.
It heats the cone on the processor so to get to my usual 30degree process temperature I only need to use the immersion for 15mins.
When heating the wash tank to 50/60 degs the electric useage is only 50% of previous.
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Sounds excellent ... but we're all waiting to find out if it runs on bio!
Go on, you know you want to.
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Yes, I do want to but I'm going to take it carefully when I start when the weather gets a little warmer. If I got myself into a 'carboning up' situation I would rather have to clean it out when it was a little warmer.
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RE- THINK, It's now been running fine for the last 4 hours on 1/3bio and 2/3 kero.
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Heh couldn't resist the lure of testing it on bio? How does the exhaust smell?
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Correct Tony. couldn't resist. Switched off now so I'll have a sniff tomorrow.
Every time I top the tank up in future I will use 50/50 bio/kero. So after 10 or so days that will be the ratio. Using it today it responds just the same as on 100% kerosene.
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Exhaust doesn't smell like a car on bio, still has that mineral/dino smell.
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Well, i didn't even get to topping the tank up with the 1st lot of 50/50 as after 3 days of running on the 1/3 bio blend the unit carboned itself up!
Spent 2 hours yesterday (coldest day of the winter) stripping the heater and de carboning everything.
So there is the answer- it doesn't like bio! Now running fine again on just kero.
Looking on the net at better instructions than the ones as-supplied it does say 'Bio fuel forbidden'!
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Shame … but well done for trying.
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when i inquired about the more expensive version, can't remember the make, i was told in no uncertain terms that it ran on diesel and nothing else. running on kero would invalidate the 4 year guarantee. didn't dare ask about bio!
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I joined the air heater facebook group a few days ago. Apparently at least one member on there has been using a bio/kero blend for 4 months without problems.
Seems you can alter the fuel/air mix on them, I haven't learnt how to do this yet so maybe with a bit of 'tweaking' it will run on a blend.
It was down for 2 days last week again, totally my own fault- I will 'mess' with things, suppose it's learning the hard way.
Realizing how clean methanol burns I thought it could be a good idea to blend a little into the kero, so I added 15%. As soon as the mix hit the pump it stopped!
I cleaned out all the fuel lines, refilled the tank with kero but the pump wouldn't re-start. Ended up poking a piece of wire in both ends and it started?
Still can't understand how the pump stopped with only 15% methanol in the mix.
Anyway all back to normal at the moment.
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... Apparently at least one member on there has been using a bio/kero blend for 4 months without problems.
He probably makes quality bio!
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Ha ha.
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Just an update, the heater is still working faultlessly. I wonder if twin tanking would work, trouble is would I remember to switch it back to kero after running on bio, probably not, so I would risk the thing sooting up again.
Watching a tube video of two blokes experimenting with trying their heater on various fuels. They aren't keen on any veg blend and even on bio have to be left on high settings.
Another video shows someone running one on petrol. It seemed to work ok, even for prolonged periods on minimum settings. So I remembered I had some misfuel. I mixed some 50/50 with kero and hey presto, it works. It's been running all day on the mix (misfuel is approx 50/50) at all settings. I have about 100 litres of this misfuel that someone gave me years ago so I will have to enquire if any of the local garages have any more.
At least this blend has reduced the ppl from about 50pence to 25 pence.