Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
General => Chatter => Topic started by: Julian on May 14, 2016, 11:10:56 PM
-
I rather fancy making a powered lawn roller (you can tell works a bit thin on the ground at the moment).
I have a ancient pull push cast iron roller seized and rusting at the bottom of the garden and a pretty good 3.5hp Tecumseh engine sitting in the garage which I keep tripping over.
Initial thoughts were to make it chain drive with a clutch, but I recon a reverse gear would be really useful for making several passes over particularly high spots and backing out of her flower beds on the occasions I'm not paying full attention.
So I'm basically describing one of those pedestrian rollers they used to roll new tarmac on pavements in the days when they bothered to resurface pavements.
Hydraulic drive would seem the way to go but I really need to do this on a budget (ie zero or minimal cost). I found Youtube video where a guy had rigged up a power steering pump to drive a bidirectional hydraulic motor via a simple leaver valve.
I can probably pick up a power steering pump cheap but does anyone know places or ways to obtain the motor, valve and hoses cheap. Stuff on ebay seems very pricey.
How are these components specified? I've seen motors quoted at so many cc per rev which seems to make sense. I've not played with hydraulics before so I'm on a steep learning curve.
-
I've got a steering pump sitting on a shelf you can have foc.
-
i don't know a lot about this but i do know there is not a lot of difference between a motor and a pump. so you could use 2 PSP pumps with the right valves. this sort of thing should be in a decent scrapyard. they will also know a fair bit about them as well.
how about using an automatic gearbox? al the valves are already there. just stick the motor on the drive shaft and away you go. bet those ones they used to use on the pavements don't have 4 gears and reverse. you could even drive it remotely from the shed if work gets really thin on the ground.
-
I've got a steering pump sitting on a shelf you can have foc.
Cool ... thanks Jim. I'll swap it for the proximity switches that keep falling off the dashboard in the Discovery.
-
i don't know a lot about this but i do know there is not a lot of difference between a motor and a pump. so you could use 2 PSP pumps with the right valves. this sort of thing should be in a decent scrapyard. they will also know a fair bit about them as well.
how about using an automatic gearbox? al the valves are already there. just stick the motor on the drive shaft and away you go. bet those ones they used to use on the pavements don't have 4 gears and reverse. you could even drive it remotely from the shed if work gets really thin on the ground.
I did think of using another power steering pump, but wasn't sure if it would work in reverse. I assumed the suction port would be a low pressure connection, but thinking about it I guess it could be tapped to take a thread ... need to do some reading up.
A 4 speed turf roller would be fun ... could add cruse control! But I want to keep it small, about lawn mower size.
-
I bought one of these beasts a few years ago;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-Ransomes-Mastiff-36-6-Blade-Cylinder-Mower-Grass-Box-Kubota-GS300-/331838757202?hash=item4d43219952:g:nlsAAOSwdU1W8yE3
I have always had visions of having an accident with it. If it is put into reverse you have to be very carefull to know what is behind you!
It is so heavy, 4 people can't lift it, but makes an amazing job of striping the back lawn, just takes me a couple of days to recover from using it!
-
i've got one of these. no good for rolling ,but would decimate the flower bed,fence, dog , next door neighbours garden. i could go on....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/allen-scythe-rough-cut-finger-mower-cutting-long-grass-four-stroke-engine-/131807331790?hash=item1eb05445ce:g:dbcAAOSwQNRXL6wW
-
For diy pump and motor are the same. The problem is the valves they have to take serious pressure as do the pipes. We are talking thousands of psi. When he valve is off it has to direct the oil back to the tank a shuttle valve is what we are talking. If you have access to a lathe it is possible to make one, it will probably leak but will work.
-
Only trouble with rollers are that they compress the low spots as well as the high
-
i've got one of these. no good for rolling ,but would decimate the flower bed,fence, dog , next door neighbours garden. i could go on....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/allen-scythe-rough-cut-finger-mower-cutting-long-grass-four-stroke-engine-/131807331790?hash=item1eb05445ce:g:dbcAAOSwQNRXL6wW
Love those, mind you safest place is behind them, you can get all sorts to fit them, water pumps, hedge trimmers, snow plough to name a few
-
I bought one of these beasts a few years ago;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-Ransomes-Mastiff-36-6-Blade-Cylinder-Mower-Grass-Box-Kubota-GS300-/331838757202?hash=item4d43219952:g:nlsAAOSwdU1W8yE3
I have always had visions of having an accident with it. If it is put into reverse you have to be very carefull to know what is behind you!
It is so heavy, 4 people can't lift it, but makes an amazing job of striping the back lawn, just takes me a couple of days to recover from using it!
That's got to be the meanest looking mower I've ever seen.
It looks like a well armored battle tank!
So if it's got a reverse gear how does that work ... all mechanical and are you breaking it for spares any time soon?
-
i've got one of these. no good for rolling ,but would decimate the flower bed,fence, dog , next door neighbours garden. i could go on....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/allen-scythe-rough-cut-finger-mower-cutting-long-grass-four-stroke-engine-/131807331790?hash=item1eb05445ce:g:dbcAAOSwQNRXL6wW
The private school (beautiful old rambling country house) I collect oil from has a couple of those. I asked how they get on with health and safety and the facilities manager said they hide them whenever they get any sort of inspection and added that they are so useful they'd never get rid of them.
-
For diy pump and motor are the same. The problem is the valves they have to take serious pressure as do the pipes. We are talking thousands of psi. When he valve is off it has to direct the oil back to the tank a shuttle valve is what we are talking. If you have access to a lathe it is possible to make one, it will probably leak but will work.
Even power steering pumps?
I worked for a spell in the high pressure water jetting industry, so yes I know how critical valve and seal tollerances need to be ... so much so I don't think I'd attempt to make a valve with the kit I've got.
-
Only trouble with rollers are that they compress the low spots as well as the high
Not talking about leveling on a Capability Brown scale, mainly the little lumps and bumps that develop with worm hills, ant nests and tufted grass (until I can eradicate it).
-
This appears to be a lawn mower boasting thread, "my mowers bigger than yours".
I've got the cheapest Argos rotary mower available, beat that.
-
I have a Wheelhorse :)
-
Blimey!!!
Was that Jim sucking his trumpet?
-
You could try sourcing a double acting spool valve, off a tractor, for your direction control.
They are not over cheap, used, on E bay, and a mental price new.
Some old yokel has probably got one rotting a way on a tractor that got pushed under a hedge 15 years ago. Finding the right yokel is the challenge.
Hydraulic hoses are not over priced, especially the sort of size your looking for.
Agricultural workshop type places often make them up to measure.
So do some plant hire firms.
One of the local tyre places used to round here, for example.
I'd be considering buying that scythe, if I hadn't knifed my fridge to death last week, trying to defrost it. I could find work for it.
Only so many pennies in the piggybank.
Oh yeah, and my mower is a 21 inch cut Viking. Every week, I follow it around gardens for hours and hours and hours............
-
I have a Wheelhorse :)
I know you're not that good at spelling and typing but did you mean " Real horse"?
-
Blimey!!!
Was that Jim sucking his trumpet?
Wind travels in a myriad of directions.
-
You could try sourcing a double acting spool valve, off a tractor, for your direction control.
They are not over cheap, used, on E bay, and a mental price new.
Some old yokel has probably got one rotting a way on a tractor that got pushed under a hedge 15 years ago. Finding the right yokel is the challenge.
Hydraulic hoses are not over priced, especially the sort of size your looking for.
Agricultural workshop type places often make them up to measure.
So do some plant hire firms.
One of the local tyre places used to round here, for example.
I'd be considering buying that scythe, if I hadn't knifed my fridge to death last week, trying to defrost it. I could find work for it.
Only so many pennies in the piggybank.
Oh yeah, and my mower is a 21 inch cut Viking. Every week, I follow it around gardens for hours and hours and hours............
Any man would be happy with a 21 inch Viking!
-
mines certainly older than yours. was going to scrap it now i haven't got a field to mow anymore unless anyone wants it. collection only from penzance. the allen scythe not the viking, hanging on to him,too useful to scrap.
-
I have a Wheelhorse :)
I know you're not that good at spelling and typing but did you mean " Tosser towers"?
I've corrected your error for you Jim.
-
Moving away the idea of hydrostatic drive as being too expensive and with too much potential for spilling oil everywhere.
So, been thinking about a mechanical reversing system ... I'll try and describe it ...
Shaft from the engine with matched gears driving a second, parallel shaft. This gives two shafts revolving in opposite directions. On both shafts fit a clutch, arranged so that they contra-operate ... one open when the other is closed, but with a "neutral" position when both are open.
A chain drive connects both the clutch outputs driving one final shaft ... could have a ratio change so reverse is slower than forward which might reduce the risk of running myself over.
Clear as mud so far?
It may be better to have clutches that are normally open so you could have one leaver for forward and one for back ... could be arranged like bicycle brakes on left and right, but this would mean modifying most lawn mower clutches which seem to be normally closed ... not impossible but just more work.
Any SENSIBLE thoughts?
-
I'd make it petrol-electric.
Hook a car alternator up to the engine. Use wheelchair motors to move the rollers. Reversing is done with a simple switch.
Stick a variable resistor on the field winding and you've got variable voltage control - which will control your speed.
edit: Actually, you'd probably have to ditch the regulator and use some electrical jiggery for variable voltage control. Quite easy - I'm sure it's been done before.
-
How about a friction drive. Use two rubber rollers with a messed gears ( so they rotate in opposite directions). Chain drive one then whichever is rubbing on the roller moving to the other in contact will reverse direction. Much like the power feed direction reverse on some smaller lathes. Using a spring for pressure you could have a "deadman handle" so it only moves if the handle is held.
-
Quite like the idea of petro-electric.
I was offered an electric wheel chair by a woman down the road ... not for me before all the wise cracks pile in, but to play with. I got it going and drove up and down the lady's drive but declined it on the basis that I didn't have a use for it and nowhere to store it.
Wonder if it's still available? It had all the controls ... I guess I could just make it battery powered and charge the batteries between use.
If I went petro-electric would it be as simple as this for example ...
(http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/DelcoWiring.jpg)
And would I need the switch and light?
-
How about a friction drive. Use two rubber rollers with a messed gears ( so they rotate in opposite directions). Chain drive one then whichever is rubbing on the roller moving to the other in contact will reverse direction. Much like the power feed direction reverse on some smaller lathes. Using a spring for pressure you could have a "deadman handle" so it only moves if the handle is held.
Nice idea and I guess if the rollers were conical it would give speed variation too ... but quite complicated to build.
-
i would go for all electric. the extra weigh of the battery would be useful in this application. if that wheelchair is no longer available a local supplier is bound to have all the bits cheap. if you 0ffer some beer tokens they may even give them to you. saying its for a school project may help.
-
Bugger, isn't that always the way. Just been down and asked about the wheel chair, had a rummage through the garage and it wasn't there. She recons a guy she had in to clear some rubbish must have had it away.
So back to thoughts mechanical.
-
Thought I had one ... eventually found this in the depths of the shed. It's a 12v motor off an old, and I mean old ... I must have had it for over 30 years, battery mower. Rating plate says it draws a whopping 38 amps!
Before I simply stick the wires on a battery, can anyone shed any light or guess what the wires do?
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Mower motor 1.JPG)
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Mower motor 2.JPG)
I'm guessing the thick black is positive and the thick uninsulated (may have originally been insulated I'll check more closely inside the motor) may be the earth ... again I'll check with a meter. It's the two other, smaller wires which puzzle me appreciate guesses on what they may be for.
I never saw the mower it came from so can't give any clues as to how it worked ie two speed etc.
-
Crikey that must have antique value
-
Funny...I've got an almost identical one from an old Atco that I used to cut my grandmother's lawn with when I was very small.
I think you might be right with the wires.
-
I'm not an electrician but I reckon the wire are there to make it go round and round and round and round ad infinitum or until you stops it.
-
Would it have a starter on it?
-
i would guess from looking at it that the 2 thin wires go to a variable resistance to control speed by varying the field voltage. do they go the to the field windings? its the same as old dynamos on cars. where the field is controlled by the regulator. they are the same thing but generating rather than motoring.
-
Bugger again! Just put a meter on it and every wire has continuity with every other wire and the body of the motor, so I'm guessing it's unserviceable. It was probably overkill anyway ... I think a lot of power is used to drive the cutting blade.
There are some quite nice 12-24v DC motor controllers on Aliexpress, that give forward and reverse along with speed control and are not too expensive.
I looked at electric bike motors ... semi reasonable prices but most, if not all, are 48v.
I guess an old Bendix starter motor would be way over sized.
-
i would guess from looking at it that the 2 thin wires go to a variable resistance to control speed by varying the field voltage. do they go the to the field windings? its the same as old dynamos on cars. where the field is controlled by the regulator. they are the same thing but generating rather than motoring.
Sorry, typed and posted whilst you posted. All the wires disappear into the windings. The uninsulated wire appears to have once had insulation ... inside the motor it just crumbles off. The big heavy black wire is connected just a small one inside the motor and as I said above, they all have continuity with each other.
-
Funny...I've got an almost identical one from an old Atco that I used to cut my grandmother's lawn with when I was very small.
I think you might be right with the wires.
Does it work?
Do you know how to wire it up?
Do you want to sell it?
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i37cBOedFvI
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i37cBOedFvI
That's a really stupid suggestion ... the trolley wheels will make ruts in the lawn just after it's been rolled flat!
-
Put the roller on the back of the genny then.
-
naa put the genny on top of the roller. you should be able to make a platform for it with the new plasma cutter. once they have sorted out your happy ending.
-
People just aren't taking this seriously.
I haven’t got a generator and I'm not going to buy one.
-
Make one then.
-
Funny...I've got an almost identical one from an old Atco that I used to cut my grandmother's lawn with when I was very small.
I think you might be right with the wires.
Does it work?
Do you know how to wire it up?
Do you want to sell it?
It did when it came off the mower some 10 years ago. And it can't be that hard.
I've just donated it to my local makerspace - I'll check it's still there and not been grabbed for some other project.
-
There are some quite nice 12-24v DC motor controllers on Aliexpress, that give forward and reverse along with speed control and are not too expensive.
I looked at electric bike motors ... semi reasonable prices but most, if not all, are 48v.
Assuming you're powering this thing from a car alternator then you can just adjust the field manually by varying the current into it. That'll comfortably give you 0-50V ish. You'll just need a switch to reverse polarity to make it go backwards. No speed controller necessary.
-
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/Reversing with chains.JPG)
-
I can't see where you'd put the pedals.