Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

General => Chatter => Topic started by: Tony on March 14, 2015, 12:35:06 AM

Title: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Tony on March 14, 2015, 12:35:06 AM
Not a good sign when the shed is no longer lit from within.  The breakers at the shed end had tripped the master RCD.  I disconnected processor and could reset it, but the main fluorescent light didn't start.

Seems like it's just the fluorescent failing so far, right?

So plugged in the processor and the pump ran OK.  But as soon as I turned on the heater, *clunk* back to darkness.  Reset the breaker, turn on heater...  all OK!

Now it's running with heater and pump OK.  Got to carry on as it was up at 95C for dewatering.

I suspect what happened is that the water collection container became disconnected and it billowed cool water vapour everywhere inside, getting into the lighting and processor electrics.  Normally I leave all the windows open in the shed, but not today.

Of course, now I'm wondering what would have happened if that was methanol vapour...
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: 1958steveflying on March 14, 2015, 12:02:17 PM
"Of course, now I'm wondering what would have happened if that was methanol vapour..."

The explosion would have been heard for miles around ! !
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: GedsJeep on March 14, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
thats why i dont make bio

my shed would end up in wales
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Tony on March 14, 2015, 03:47:10 PM
The oddness continues.  Turning on the heater sometimes trips the earth leakage breaker.  Same with starting the mono pump.

I've disconnected the non-working fluorescent fixing (perfectly dry in there) and now the heater and pumps all work OK.  It was tripping with the lights switched off but I guess that only disconnects the live side - so it looks like something went wrong with the electronic ballast in the light fitting?
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Julian on March 14, 2015, 04:21:01 PM
It's always the same ... everyone blames biodiesel for things that go wrong.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: knighty on March 14, 2015, 05:55:41 PM
negative to earth fault/short/leak will reip your main rcb/mcb/rcbo/whatever it's called

florescent lights are often a bit 'leaky'

just disconnect the earth and call it fixed ;-)


or if you're worried, disconnect the earth and join the lights earth connection to the negative instead
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Tony on March 14, 2015, 07:20:34 PM
It's one of these 6ft ones with twin tubes, proper lit up the shed.  For a while it's been a little reluctant to start, it started OK yesterday but when I went back to the shed the power was off and on restarting the light didn't start (either tube) so I think it's shot.  I guess you can buy the ballasts separately?

It was no fun making bio in the dark...
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on March 14, 2015, 08:32:10 PM
Or junk the fluros and get some LEDs?
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Julian on March 14, 2015, 08:45:22 PM
On the subject of LEDs, at last, COB (at least I think they're COB) LEDs, identical in size to halogen dichroic lamps are available at a half reasonable price.

Warm white, colour temperature is indistinguishable from halogen and if anything they seem slightly brighter.

Made by LAP, I got them from Screwfix.

Non-dimmable 4.2W 281 lumins ... Pt No. 9674D  20 quid for 6

Dimmable 5W 346 lumins ... Pt No. 3797G  20 quid for 5

Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: julesandtash on March 14, 2015, 09:08:13 PM
Sounds rather like a neutral to earth fault. They only tend to show up when some load is applied and the out of balance current flows then trip the RCD.

As for if it had been methanol vapour, probably nothing would have happened. The vapour cloud would need to be in between the explosive limits and would have needed a spark or very hot surface to ignite.
Providing nothing was making any sparks then its highly likely you would have been ok. Of course, walking in and seeing such a cloud, your first instinct would probably be to switch things off, and that spark as the switch breaks the circuit could be the end of you and the shed.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Tony on March 15, 2015, 07:07:03 PM
I'd like to think I'd be level headed enough to switch something like that off at the house end. :)

We have COB all over the house, including the new filament ones in our bedroom, but  I'm not convinced it would be possible to replace a 150W fluorescent fixing with COB and get a similar light level without using an awful lot of COB bulbs? Maybe several COB floods?  Not sure the economics work out for lighting that is infrequently used.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: knighty on March 16, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
if it's for your shed, 12v led strips will be awesome

I've got a storage room 6mx11m, florecnets all died - didn't want to spend much cash on it because it's hardly used

put up 8 x 5m 12v led strips and it's awesome, much brighter than before, and much whiter light so it's much better to work under


these are the ones I bought....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181578644228?var=480538295329

ordered 10 then, just ordered another 20 they're so good!
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on March 16, 2015, 07:40:39 AM
if it's for your shed, 12v led strips will be awesome

I've got a storage room 6mx11m, florecnets all died - didn't want to spend much cash on it because it's hardly used

put up 8 x 5m 12v led strips and it's awesome, much brighter than before, and much whiter light so it's much better to work under


these are the ones I bought....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181578644228?var=480538295329

ordered 10 then, just ordered another 20 they're so good!

Super cheap. I've seen them in vans, I was impressed. At that price, I'll be getting some.
Just connect them straight up to 12 volt and a switch, no control box or anything needed?
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Tony on March 16, 2015, 08:22:30 AM
The issue I've had with those is aging, it's luck of the draw, some rolls seem to last forever and some the coating over the LEDs yellows over time and the LEDs fail.  I've even seen this on expensive contractor installs of them at work, where they are integrated into large mirrors over sinks.

That said, at that price it's hard to go wrong, if they fail just replace!
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on March 16, 2015, 08:38:03 AM
They don't combine postage. You pay the postage fee on every item.
Thought I'd punt a tenner, and 10 units was over £20.
Being the brave and intrepid spender that I am, I ordered 4.........
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: knighty on March 16, 2015, 09:18:21 AM
yep, just connect straight to 12v


I thought the same thing, they're a bit too cheap.... but the 8 I have up are working great, they're not normally on much, but I left them on overnight the first night I put them up to test them a bit... all still perfect in the morning :-)

plus, cheap enough to replace if they go wrong


they used to combine postage, deffo. did the first time I ordered :-(
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on March 16, 2015, 09:38:42 AM
Hmm, maybe I've cocked it up. I wanted two different colours, so added them to basket. When I went to the basket, they had got postage on each item. Same when I ordered the four. Couldn't see any way around it.
Not to worry, they are still ridiculously cheap.
I want them for interior lights for two vehicles. Perfect solution for that. No way I could do it cheaper, or better, probably.
I'm sure I can find a whole load of other uses when I get them in my hands.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: therecklessengineer on March 16, 2015, 10:08:48 AM
I've got some Fluro light fittings banging around somewhere. Installed for about 12 months then removed.

Interested? They're in Somerset - I can probably get them to Southampton sometime in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: julesandtash on March 16, 2015, 02:34:23 PM
Be careful connecting LED light strip 'just to 12v' in a vehicle. The electrical system may be close to 12v at rest but nearer 14v when charhing and that will start to cook the LEDs.
I ruined some in the caravan till i remembered the mains hookup charger puts out 13.8v float.
A regulated 12v supply to them will make them last much longer
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Tony on March 16, 2015, 02:52:04 PM
I've got some Fluro light fittings banging around somewhere. Installed for about 12 months then removed.

Interested? They're in Somerset - I can probably get them to Southampton sometime in the next few weeks.

Tempting, let me think over the options.  The existing fitting was 2x 6ft 75W tubes - 150W total - and replacement ballast is quite expensive.
The alternative is to try 12V LED strips which are 75W a piece, or some mini COB floods (which may also be useful for camping).  Apparently ~20W LED is the same as 75W flourescent.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on March 16, 2015, 05:34:27 PM
Be careful connecting LED light strip 'just to 12v' in a vehicle. The electrical system may be close to 12v at rest but nearer 14v when charhing and that will start to cook the LEDs.
I ruined some in the caravan till i remembered the mains hookup charger puts out 13.8v float.
A regulated 12v supply to them will make them last much longer

Ah, cheers for that. I'll look into it, get a regulator or something.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Julian on March 16, 2015, 10:19:05 PM
If you're looking for LED lights, there are just one one two on this site   https://www.myled.com/ (https://www.myled.com/)

I've had some COB LED strips off them via ebay and the seem reasonable quality.

A 150mm strip @ 3 quid flood lights the printer bed really well.  3 or 4 would light a room.

Despite there massive range I still can't find a 30w led outside flood light with par and over ride ... anyone any ideas?
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: julesandtash on March 21, 2015, 03:06:01 PM
Just get a standard pir sensor with override built in and connect a basic 30w led flood to that
 
Most pir controlled LEDs on our buildings at work are done that way
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Julian on March 21, 2015, 04:00:05 PM
Just get a standard pir sensor with override built in and connect a basic 30w led flood to that
 
Most pir controlled LEDs on our buildings at work are done that way

Well done Pike, I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that!

Thanks Jules, I should have sussed that out myself.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: knighty on March 21, 2015, 04:18:56 PM
Be careful connecting LED light strip 'just to 12v' in a vehicle. The electrical system may be close to 12v at rest but nearer 14v when charhing and that will start to cook the LEDs.
I ruined some in the caravan till i remembered the mains hookup charger puts out 13.8v float.
A regulated 12v supply to them will make them last much longer

the ones I bought have a little driver chip with them

I've had one in the back of a van lighting it up any time a door is open (front or back) for about a year and it's still going strong :-)
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on April 02, 2015, 06:40:43 PM
Well I have got those in the link Knighty put up.
Pulled out of the post box at 3.30, fitted a roll in the van by 6.00. (I had to have a snooze before I started.....)

Well chuffed. Flicking them on and off, and staring into them, like a cat licking it's paws after eating a bowl of cream.

I took the power from the original interior light, through a two way switch, so they even work with the doors.

Will test in darkness, soon as nature allows.

They're blue.........
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on April 02, 2015, 09:07:34 PM
Hmmm, Blooooo. Very, very Bloooo.

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i323/greasemonkey3/P4020239_zpslkbdo1cd.jpg) (http://s1088.photobucket.com/user/greasemonkey3/media/P4020239_zpslkbdo1cd.jpg.html)

All aboard the Sci-Fi Transit.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Julian on April 02, 2015, 10:11:48 PM
Put it on the roof and make it flash!
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on April 02, 2015, 11:59:27 PM
Emergency lawnmowing service, fast response team.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Julian on April 03, 2015, 12:41:33 AM
Emergency lawnmowing service, fast response team.

keeping lawn and order.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: knighty on April 03, 2015, 12:47:25 AM
looking good !

but what's that on your passenger seat ?
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: greasemonkey on April 03, 2015, 11:26:38 AM
looking good !

but what's that on your passenger seat ?

Ahhh, that's "The Box" MkII. The result of winter downtime, and seasonal insomnia.
MkI was considerably different, made from hard board and staples, but it proved it's worth for a couple of years.

MkII is so strong it will probably be the only thing left if I drive flat out into a wall. It was just made from what I had handy at the time.

Phone holder, pens, pencils, tape, diaries, receipts, all those little bits that you can never find when you want them.

Also used as a desk, workbench for small stuff, and dinner table.

It's held in by the seat belt at the moment. It's still evolving.

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i323/greasemonkey3/P4030240_zpscxg5gq1r.jpg) (http://s1088.photobucket.com/user/greasemonkey3/media/P4030240_zpscxg5gq1r.jpg.html)

I love my "Box". Every vehicle should have a "Box".

It's a whole lot better than chucking things on the dashboard, and having them flying around the cab. The glovebox, and cubby hole are just not big enough.
Title: Re: Uh oh - breakers tripped
Post by: Tony on April 03, 2015, 02:20:49 PM
I've got one of them, it's an old steel ammo box and like you say, useful for all the stuff you can't squirrel away elsewhere because there's not enough room :)