Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Chemistry and process => Topic started by: Tony on December 14, 2014, 10:22:01 AM
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The Largo is definitely drinking it at an alarming rate. Will 2-ehn help or am I better off thinning with petrol to aid atomisation?
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The question is, is it a fault, or the fuel? It could be a fault with the vehicle it self.
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No obvious drips from underneath, really I need to whip the driver's seat out and check the leak off rail isn't leaking... off.
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I wasn't thinking so much of it running out somewhere, although that is a possibility.
Is there some kind of electric trickery gone awol, that makes it think it's mega cold, so is pumping more fuel through? Cold start not turning itself off?
Would it be doing the same if it was on pump diesel?
Is there a brake dragging? It's automatic, innit? You could easy have one of the drum brakes at the back dragging (or even a disc) which may well not be noticeable in driving, but could add significantly to the fuel consumption.
Anyone pulled the handbrake up lately? Do you mostly use the park position on the shift lever mostly?
Just thinking out loud really, but I'd hesitate to pin it on the bio just yet.
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I wasn't thinking so much of it running out somewhere, although that is a possibility.
Is there some kind of electric trickery gone awol, that makes it think it's mega cold, so is pumping more fuel through? Cold start not turning itself off?
Would it be doing the same if it was on pump diesel?
Is there a brake dragging? It's automatic, innit? You could easy have one of the drum brakes at the back dragging (or even a disc) which may well not be noticeable in driving, but could add significantly to the fuel consumption.
Anyone pulled the handbrake up lately? Do you mostly use the park position on the shift lever mostly?
Just thinking out loud really, but I'd hesitate to pin it on the bio just yet.
Yes it's auto, and I always use the handbrake - though the handbrake is actually a ratchet operated foot pedal with a release handle underneath the dash. I'm pretty sure nothing is binding as it rolls just fine in neutral.
I have messed with the fuel temperature sensor though to report a higher fuel temp than normal - this was to increase fuelling at idle to prevent a stall problem, with the added side effect of increasing engine power. This didn't seem to affect fuel economy at all over the summer months - but perhaps now it is causing a problem? Certainly when driving I've noticed the ECU selecting a high idle until things get warm - enough to run the car along at 20mph without pressing the accelerator.
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Now this is interesting on 2-EHN:
http://www.fragging.de/2EHN.pdf
This effect is greatest at lower temperature-density conditions, corresponding to low-load and start-up conditions in a diesel engine, and becomes negligible at the highest temperature-density conditions examined.
This paper strongly suggests that 2-EHN has the greatest effect on short, cold started journeys and not to long, hot journeys, which might explain the variable results we've seen reported on the forums. Since cold short journeys are what I mostly do, I've got some 2-EHN on order to see how it goes.
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From personal experience I can't agree with the above statement ref 2-ehn and hot running, yes it's good for cold starts but I get an 8/9% improvement on mpg over not using it for long runs.
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Interesting. What ratio are you dosing? 1:1000 or slightly stronger?
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Where are you guys buying it from ?
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Trinity, £13 for 1l delivered.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231410380937 (I offered £13 and it was automatically accepted).
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Cheers Tony, I'm just about out of all additives now !
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Where are you guys buying it from ?
Better value can be found here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-EHN-Highest-quality-99-9-pure-2-Ethyl-Hexyl-Nitrate-Cetane-Booster-5-Litres-/201078885372?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ed13c4bfc
£9 per litre represents good value in my book
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just for info...
this..
http://www.chemiphase.co.uk/fuelforce-2000-petroleum-diesel-performance-enhancer/
contains no 2-ehn.
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just for info...
this..
http://www.chemiphase.co.uk/fuelforce-2000-petroleum-diesel-performance-enhancer/
contains no 2-ehn.
...but that's not for bio....it's for dino.
No idea what's in it...or indeed, what's not in it.
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me either, but it has been bandied around on vod as 2-ehn.
this is from chemiphase (just up the road from me...)
Dear Sir,
We do not supply 2EHN
But we have a product fuel force 2000 which contains several fuel additives, and also contains mixed EHN, type components,
What fuel type are you planning to use this product for and at what concentration,
Does the fuel you intend to treat, have a low cetane number ?
Clive
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I know a little about their bioboost product. I took delivery of some a few years ago and contains 2-EHN at about 30%. Can contain up to 70% methanol.FFS
This product was sold to me in a leaking container. Complained about that and they then sent me another....which also leaked. Some people never learn. Ah well!
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Interesting. What ratio are you dosing? 1:1000 or slightly stronger?
I'm using 1.6:1000 or 40ml/25ltr.
I used to dose 1.5:1000 but 2 x 20ml syringes is a lot easier (it's me "I don't give a shite" pills wot do it).
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I've added 35ml to the estimated 35l in the tank, if that's OK I'll dose the next 25l with 35ml too at Jim's ratio of 1.5:1000.
What is the effect of overdoing it? Knocking? I'm bringing 25l of bio with me to dilute the tank with just in case, though at 1:1000 I gather I'm unlikely to see any issues. I think if anything my fuel pump is slightly retarded.
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What is the effect of overdoing it? Knocking?
Over dosing can cause a serious leak in the bank balance akin to pouring money down the drain.
It can take a while to find the right dose for your vehicle, increase the dose by 0.1ml/ltr until the increase in benifit stops or reverses then go back to the best result.
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My recollection of these types of additives is that dosing levels reach a plateau where increasing beyond it either does nothing or can reduce effectiveness. So as Jim say's a waste of money.
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In all fairness though overdosing by an extra 0.5:1000 is what, 25ml per 50l tank or 32p per tank... some people are paying that per litre of oil.
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In all fairness though overdosing by an extra 0.5:1000 is what, 25ml per 50l tank or 32p per tank... some people are paying that per litre of oil.
True but you wouldn't give me 32p every time you fill your tank would you, you don't mind giving it to your supplier though.
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My recollection of these types of additives is that dosing levels reach a plateau where increasing beyond it either does nothing or can reduce effectiveness. So as Jim say's a waste of money.
I dare say you're right Steve. It's a long winded but essential process to find out what the optimum is. At the moment I'm at 3ml but start a reduction program on my next fill up.
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I tell you what, this 2-EHN is good stuff. Even at the low dose the engine is a lot smoother following cold starting, and I'm not pushing the throttle anywhere near as far to keep it rolling at 30mph. It's a bit early to know what the effect on fuel efficiency is but I'm pretty hopeful about this!
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Interesting. Got to be good if it needs less throttle.
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I tell you what, this 2-EHN is good stuff. Even at the low dose the engine is a lot smoother following cold starting, and I'm not pushing the throttle anywhere near as far to keep it rolling at 30mph. It's a bit early to know what the effect on fuel efficiency is but I'm pretty hopeful about this!
Welcome to our world eventually.
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He'll be water washing next ;D
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He'll be water washing next ;D
He may be a bit slow but he ain't that daft y'know.
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He'll be water washing next ;D
He may be a bit slow but he ain't that daft y'know.
Aye..I dare say you're right.
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He'll be water washing next ;D
He may be a bit slow but he ain't that daft y'know.
Aye..I dare say you're right.
I'm not very often wrong but I'm right again.
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We never get tired of you telling us that Pops ;)
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We never get tired of you telling us that Pops ;)
Well that's alright then innit.
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I tell you what, this 2-EHN is good stuff. Even at the low dose the engine is a lot smoother following cold starting, and I'm not pushing the throttle anywhere near as far to keep it rolling at 30mph. It's a bit early to know what the effect on fuel efficiency is but I'm pretty hopeful about this!
Welcome to our world eventually.
I'm perpetually sceptical about "wonder chemicals" that can affect combustion at such low dilutions so I'm pleasantly surprised.
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I've been thinking it's worth a try... and now I'm convinced that's so.
Usually do acetone @ 0.15%, but think it's pretty close to a placebo with my bio.
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Just an update for those who are interested, I am about 600 ml into the 1 litre I bought, it has been used in my Galaxy which is on 50/50 ish bio dino our other Peugeot 1.6Hdi which is on dino and more recently my brother inlaws Audi 2.5tdi following what I can only say is amazing transformation to my Galaxy. I was beginning to think I would have to possibly replace or get overhauled the injectors as it was starting to sound really harsh and drive sluggish. I dosed at 3ml per litre for 70litres of fuel and 2ml per litre since then. The other cars have had 1 ml per litre added but only for the last couple of weeks or so so nothing to report on them yet.
The Galaxy is like a new car on steroids ! quicker to start, quieter at idle and drives like a dream. No need to floor it on fast roads just squeeze the throttle and she flies up to 100 in a breeze. Just bought 5 litres half given to my Bro inlaw for his Audi and the rest for my cars, it will go in the camper tomorrow and I shall take her for a drive to get it into the system but that wont get many miles for a couple of months yet.
How are others getting on ?
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Still using it, back to summer MPGs now :)
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Still sold on the 2-EHN, just ordered another 5l, I think I'll keep using it over the summer too. Been dosing 40ml in 25l of bio (1.6:1000).
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I am totally sold on it too.
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I wonder if Nitro Methane would work, I still have 5 litres left from my model days.
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Still sold on the 2-EHN, just ordered another 5l, I think I'll keep using it over the summer too. Been dosing 40ml in 25l of bio (1.6:1000).
Who did you buy it from Tony? Did you use the 'make offer' with Trinity?
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It's funny stuff. I've been dosing my veg with 30ml per 20ltrs and it doesn't seem to make any noticeable difference in my 2.5di transit and yet others rave about it.
I'm going to carry on using it though because I bought 5 litres!
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I bought 5ltrs of 2-ehn and I found it made no difference to my car/van try in mates car the same total waste of money in my opinion. but on the other hand I been using acetone as a additive and find it really makes big difference in the performance of my old van
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Still sold on the 2-EHN, just ordered another 5l, I think I'll keep using it over the summer too. Been dosing 40ml in 25l of bio (1.6:1000).
Who did you buy it from Tony? Did you use the 'make offer' with Trinity?
No I got it from that power.enhancer seller you linked earlier in the thread, as you point out better value per litre.
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I see that Trinity have dropped their price...now £38.99 BIN inc delivery for 5lt but they also have the offer button. I wonder what price they have set for accepting an offer.
On December 16th 2014 power enhancer was best value...looks like trinity is now.
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I had my offer of £37 inc postage accepted when I bought mine from them in July 14.
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Didn't see that trinity had a 5l one on eBay, bit late for me this time but have you got a link?
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Didn't see that trinity had a 5l one on eBay, bit late for me this time but have you got a link?
http://www.trinity-research.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=21_25_26&products_id=50
I cant find the ebay advert but just pulled this from the Trinity website
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took the rexton down to cosford airshow.
90 miles of 80mph motorway and an hour in traffic idling.
the same back
bit more running round
total miles 280
used 46L. with 20ml in 20L
i think thats about 120 odd miles to a cubbie at 80mph.
in a 2.9L 2.5 tonne truck.
not sure what that is to the gallon?
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Google is great for this kind of conversion, so long as you remember to inform it that they are imperial (not US) gallons:
https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#hl=en&q=280%2F46+miles+per+litre+in+miles+per+imperial+gallon
Result - 27.7mpg. Pretty respectable for the vehicle. Automatic box?
At the moment I'm not seeing any clear gains from using 2-EHN now we're in the peak of summer, so I've stopped adding it. I think it's great for cold, short journeys, but makes little or no difference (even in winter) to long journeys.
Perhaps this is why people's results are so variable?