Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
General => Alternative heat and power => Topic started by: julesandtash on November 09, 2014, 02:44:47 PM
-
Now my Lister is set up for full CHP mode we have had a nice off-grid day.
The electrical output has kept us going all day including chopping up kindling wood with my chopsaw and mixing glycerol log mixture with my paddle mixer.
The processor was busy making my next batch with the pump running on lister power whilst the heat was coming, via the thermal store from the Lister's waste heat.
Now we are sitting in front of the wood burner, burning glycerol logs which watching TV, bathed in light and using the computer, all still on biodiesel fuelled lister power whilst the engines waste heat is slowly heating the water I will be making use of for a bath later. The bio burning boiler is there to add some more heat if the engine cant produce enough.
It has taken a while to get it all sorted but I am very pleased with the results. I still dont think I could get away with 24/7 running in normal life without falling out with my closest neighbour but it would certainly be OK during a prolonged mains outage as I guess they would be round here making use of the facilities.
Providing I had methanol and KOH in stock, and oil either here or available for collection, I can be self supporting and make more fuel without any need for mains services (water would be the first thing that would become an issue but I have 2000 litres of rainwater harvesting so would be OK for a while)
Here is a video of it doing it's thing - output is visible on the LED meter, top is voltage, middle is frequency and the smaller number at the bottom is current in Amps. http://vid471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/My%20Movie_zpsoeyicgww.mp4
The one gadget we have that does not run nicely on the Lister is the Tefal Actifry. It runs for a few seconds and then throws up an error code.
We have two (one a broken one I bought and repaired). Both run fine on mains, neither will work on the Lister power.
That is a bit annoying as, being 1400Watts and capable of cooking everything from chips to chilli to a casserole, they would be ideal to use during a mains outage.
I dont suppose an electronics guru's out there have any thoughts on that one ???
-
Brilliant work! How much fuel would you expect the Lister to use in a regular usage sort of day?
-
Well done, Jules ... you've achieved what many of us only aspire to!
-
Tash must be incredably proud of you Jules and I echo the statement made by Julian just above.
-
Have you looked at the mains waveform on a scope? Perhaps it's not nicely sinusoidal. In which case an APC UPS (which have pure sine out) would clean it up nicely for anything sensitive downstream.
-
JulianF has an oscilloscope and will be coming down in the very near future so we can have a look then. Somebody on Navitron suggested exactly the same scenario
A 2000VA UPS is a big lump to put between the mains and the Actifry so I suspect that may be a non starter
-
This will be from years and years back, but may be of some interest -
http://www.decdun.me.uk/mainsconditioner.html
I believe some hifi freaks use 1:1 transformers, which would probably be easy enough to experiment with.
-
I had similar trouble with my induction cooker. Depending on what else was switched on, it would throw an error code.
It did work very nicely on the UPS though.
Glad you've got it all running so nicely. A much better looking install than my lash up!
-
Thanks James, I thought you would be pleased to see it.
I do think that a second flywheel in place of the compressor would make a big improvement but a new crankshaft and bearing housing is the best part of £300 and then I would need a second SOM flywheel - a lot of money for no guaranteed fix.
It will be interesting when Julian brings his Oscilloscope over - I will post of video of the trace on mains and on generator power since I can flick between the two with the generator changeover switch - so seamlessly that I can go from mains to an already running generator and back to mains without the TV going off or the lights going out.
That is with a proper, break before make, generator changeover switch
-
I might be able to get you a decent sized UPS for next to nowt if you're interested? I can't guarantee the batteries are any good but that's not the important bit here is it?
-
I would indeed be interested :)
-
ok, i'll let you know. I'm at a school next week where we're currently offloading a load of legacy kit, amongst it is a bunch of old servers and a couple of APC UPSs so should be able to pick one up.
-
all the APC i have seen need 48 volts. a decent 2.2 kw one will need about 50 amps. don't forget most of them are not continuously rated. so they may well cut out after about 1/2 hour depending on the battery capacity they have. you can get around this with a larger fan,but then it starts getting complicated.
for your actifry i would "modify" the spare one with a pair of side cutters. how complex are they? cant be too much in there element,motor,timer,thermostat. ok a bit complex,but not insurmountable.
-
these are 240 volts and I believe 13amp, I need to check as they could be 36 amp...
-
I guess it will similar specs to this, but older, not sure on the wattage as I can't find the older model. oh and they're not rack mounted, its a tower unit.
http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SURT2000RMXLI
looks like this:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=apc+smart+ups+2000&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&biw=1600&bih=805&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=FgJhVMGNHaLP7QaFo4HIBA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=rrwLIgsJq7cEIM%253A%3B8Za6OoWB1QEaLM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.lulusoso.com%252Fupload%252F20120307%252FAPC_Smart_UPS_3000VA_USB_Serial_230V.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fsell.lulusoso.com%252Fselling-leads%252F481695%252Fapc-UPS-750va-ups-circuit.html%3B497%3B498
-
If you can get one on the super cheap I would be very very grateful and happy to give it a go.
The Lister is only good for about 15A so potentially I could sit the UPS next to the Lister and use it to smooth all the power into the house which would be very nice
-
It will likely be free, might cost me a drink...
-
I will buy you quite a lot of drinks if you can get me one then.
Looking at UPS units online, it appears that an online variety would do the job nicely as it will rectify the incoming AC to DC (which should not be too picky with regard to the waveform) and then invert it to true sine wave AC which everything should like.
-
i am not sure trying to use a ups as a signal conditioner will work. you may run into the same problems you did with with the mig. i had a trace inverter with a built in battery charger that i killed by trying to charge the batteries with the genny. the electronics are expecting something like a sine wave. put a triangular waveform in them and you get all sorts of spikes which will kill the fets. using one as a ups on battery power as a UPS will work,hence the 48 volt 50 amp supply. you could use 4 12 volt batteries and charge them during the time you are on mains power from the internal charger in the UPS. if you are down this way i have one you can play with.they are heavy around 30 kgs.
-
Thanks Bob. The problem with the Mig was purely that the engine didn't have the power to drive it at high enough current. It would strike and arc and the alternator output would jump massively but soon that initial burst of energy in the flywheel was used up and there was not enough current
It would be nice to try an AVR alternator in place of the capacitor excited one but they are not cheap bits of kit new and not that common secondhand - most spares or repair generators have working engines and dead alternators
-
I suppose a further alternative would be to generate at 48v DC and power an inverter from that
-
I suppose a further alternative would be to generate at 48v DC and power an inverter from that
yes that is what i meant. power the UPS from a 48 volt supply. one way to do that would be if the generator has a 110 volt output you could use a 240/110 volt transformer. that would give you give you around 50 volts ac a couple of stud diodes and a bit of ally for a heat sink. i use a transformer with a couple of diodes to charge my battery bank at 50 amps works fine and has done for 5 years or so.
-
Hmmm - it does have two 115V coils. Currently they are connected in series to give 230V but it would be easy enough to wire them in parallel for 115V which, at full output, would be around 30A
I guess all I would need then is a 3KVA or higher 240/110 transformer and the diodes
I will see what Dazza comes up with (and NigelB has kindly agreed to transport from Derby to Cornwall if does get one) and take it from there
-
Am I missing something?
110V AC doesn't give you 50V. 110V AC rectified directly would give you about 150V DC.
-
The bit where bob said feed the 110V into a 240v to 110v transformer which would give about 50v ac then recify that.
-
you may need to use 4 diodes and smooth it a bit as well. a couple of 100 volt electrolytics should do it as long as they can handle the current. not sure how fussy UPS's are about the battery side DC. of course 4 12 volt batteries would also work, and may be a bit simpler.
rewire the genny for 110 volts
use 240/110 transformer 240 side connected to 110volt output from genny
50 volt output from transformer to either 2 stud diodes or 4 12 volt batteries.
if the UPS doenst like halfwave recified AC either use 4 12 volt batteries charged from the halfwave AC or use a bridge recifier and a couple of smoothing caps to supply the UPS with a clean dc signal.
simples ish.....depends on whether high current caps or batteries are easier to find.
-
while checking high power caps and power supplies i came across this. looks quite handy. 80 volt max so x10 probe will get you 800 volts. only 1meg but fine for checking the genny waveform.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SainSmart-Pocket-Sized-Digital-Oscilloscope-DSO201/dp/B006CQT49E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415745540&sr=8-1&keywords=pocket+oscilloscope
-
Aha, I see.
50V AC rectified will give you about 71 volts DC though. If I've got my maths right then you'll be wanting about 57V to fully charge a 48V battery bank.
-
Excellent Jules, its great to see it doing what it's supposed to do, some dreamers just let them rot in fields!
I'm turning green!
-
Thanks Chug - yours always starts OK having been abandoned all year so I suspect internally it is pretty good.
With a bit of a service and addition of an alternator, you have a bio fuelled BBB
-
Yeah I had a 3K alternator sat in the shed for years and sods law I sold it cheap a few weeks before the CS came along, I've been promised two alternators since then and neither has materialised, I also found one on another genset that was surplus to the chaps needs but that turned out to be U/S.
If I had more garden at home/distance to neighbours it would have been sorted soon after I got it and powering the house, and Ken Boak says every year he will bring an alternator next time and get my CS setup and powering the BBB but it hasn't happened....YET! And he didn't even make it to the BBB himself this year.
-
chug
i have a 3kw alternator sitting under the coach somewhere you can have. it needs a frame for the the drive end as it has a taper shaft to fit to a engine. i have to get rid of the coach so when the scrap man starts on it it should reappear. i have never used it but it was given to me years ago. any use to you?
-
Mine was similar.
I cut a lump out of the engine crankcase to act as a frame. Ugly, but it worked!
Have you modified that Jules?
-
Nope, just bolted through that and the two rear mounts to a steel cradle which itself bolts to the C section steel frame that the engine, alternator and tensioner sit on. That frame is then bolted to the concrete base with M12 bolts.
-
Nice.
I had reason to revisit the machine shop where I made that. The instructors were convinced it would never work!
-
I'll take a closeup photo and post it on here later
Here it is. The cut up crankcase and the machines input shaft to take the power steering pulley (all James' work) are clearly visible
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141113_191457_zpsx66b0nsj.jpg)
-
Yes please Bob, that would be great, when you find it let me know please.
Love the old crankcase support, nice one James.
-
Whilst there's talk of lister bits...
I have an engine, a SOM base plate, and an alternator, but i still need to get the small bits, like a long enough belt, an idler, and the right sort of size pulley for the alternator (which i need to look up the rpm for!)
I mention it, just in case anyone has said bits in their scrap bins! : )
-
chug
i have a 3kw alternator sitting under the coach somewhere you can have. it needs a frame for the the drive end as it has a taper shaft to fit to a engine. i have to get rid of the coach so when the scrap man starts on it it should reappear. i have never used it but it was given to me years ago. any use to you?
I modded the front of one of those. A steel plate with a Plummer block bolted on. Worked fine. It has now gone to a new home.
Julianf
I run the 2.5kW alternator on mine with a single V belt that runs on the flat flywheel. I have had no slippage problems. When it was used as a starter belt on the old lister it did slip and I had to use a polly V . I made the pulley for the alt from a aluminium blank.
-
JulianF is on the way down with his oscillioscope today so I should be able to get some photos and video of the normal mains waveform and the generator output. Watch this space
-
Well I guess we know why some things dont like the power output from the Lister.....
Here is the scope showing the normal mains waveform at my house
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141114_130636_zps348fhdjy.jpg)
Here is the horrible waveform from the generator with about 1KW of load
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141114_130218_zpsottaqodj.jpg)
Switching on the electric kettle so the engine is running flat out improves things slighlty (it rounds the waveform off a bit)
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141114_130245_zpskvlernwn.jpg)
Not pretty at all.
-
There's your problem all right :)
I used to have a big 1:1 transformer which I used to smooth out genny waveforms for sensitive equipment. I think I sold it but there must be some second hand somewhere.
-
The alternator can produce 115V or 230V depending on whether it's two windings are connected in parallel (115v) or series (230v)
As such, I guess it wouldn't have to be a 1:1 transformer.
A decent sized 230 to 110V transformer (which I suspect would be easier to find) with the 115V genny output fed to its 110V side should give mains voltage on the output of the transformer and a nicer waveform?
-
That's not a bad idea. Reversed 110 step down site transformer. I don't know if that would work as well as a "proper" mains isolating transformer (the one I had seemed to have some rudimentary voltage regulation as well, no idea how it worked but there seemed to be extra coils around a section of transformer core for some purpose). I suppose the idea is to take out any high frequency components and just leave the fundamental.
I wonder if it is possible to stick some caps on the 240v side of your site transformer to tune out some of the other frequencies?
-
chug
i have a 3kw alternator sitting under the coach somewhere you can have. it needs a frame for the the drive end as it has a taper shaft to fit to a engine. i have to get rid of the coach so when the scrap man starts on it it should reappear. i have never used it but it was given to me years ago. any use to you?
I modded the front of one of those. A steel plate with a Plummer block bolted on. Worked fine. It has now gone to a new home.
Julianf
I run the 2.5kW alternator on mine with a single V belt that runs on the flat flywheel. I have had no slippage problems. When it was used as a starter belt on the old lister it did slip and I had to use a polly V . I made the pulley for the alt from a aluminium blank.
Dick,
I was going by, when i saw your 6hp, you had (IIRC) a poly-v running arround the outside of the flywheel, with some sort of gel compound on there?
I figured that, if i used a standard auto poly-v, then i could use standard auto pulleys / idlers, and also the belts themselves would probbaly be cheaper / easier to find than others?
That's the angle i was coming from, but id go with whatever you advise?
-
The poly vee belt works fine for me - running on the flat flywheel and a power steering pulley on the alternator
Interestingly I found an article comparing the output of various backup power systems .
This image was the waveform of a cheap generator - bears a striking resemblance to my image
Theirs
(http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/alton-load.jpg)
Mine
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141114_130245_zpskvlernwn.jpg)
whereas this is the output of an APC smart UPS running on batteries
(http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/apc700-load.jpg)
I'm definitely liking the idea of an online (ie dual conversion) UPS if it can rectify the poor quality AC and invert to produce a waveform like that last one
-
chug
i have a 3kw alternator sitting under the coach somewhere you can have. it needs a frame for the the drive end as it has a taper shaft to fit to a engine. i have to get rid of the coach so when the scrap man starts on it it should reappear. i have never used it but it was given to me years ago. any use to you?
I modded the front of one of those. A steel plate with a Plummer block bolted on. Worked fine. It has now gone to a new home.
Julianf
I run the 2.5kW alternator on mine with a single V belt that runs on the flat flywheel. I have had no slippage problems. When it was used as a starter belt on the old lister it did slip and I had to use a polly V . I made the pulley for the alt from a aluminium blank.
Dick,
I was going by, when i saw your 6hp, you had (IIRC) a poly-v running arround the outside of the flywheel, with some sort of gel compound on there?
I figured that, if i used a standard auto poly-v, then i could use standard auto pulleys / idlers, and also the belts themselves would probbaly be cheaper / easier to find than others?
That's the angle i was coming from, but id go with whatever you advise?
You are quite correct on the polly v on the 6hp. I used that as it was also from the starter motor, a transit one modified, and I found a V belt slipped. I used belt dressing to increase the friction. It really depends on the speeds and power you need to transmit. For grid tie I need 300+ V and the frequency is not important as it is rectified. I only take 2kW from the pma so I find with the new setup a v belt is fine. Regarding cost there is little difference. If the pulley diameter is small then a polly V is better with a jockey to get more circumference contact with the belt. I would, however, suggest you go with whatever pulley you can source that is the correct size for the rpm you need. I used a jockey on the 6hp as the pma was fixed but with a som base you can tension the belt by moving the alt. on the new setup the pma is mounted with some flex to keep the belt under tension.
-
jules,
if you want to go down the heavy metal route and try a 1 to 1 transformer i have a 3 phase 10 kw auto transformer.
if you took the coil off the centre leg and just used the 2 outside coils you could add a winding to the centre leg and use it as a AVR.
you apply DC to the centre winding to vary the flux intensity, a bit like a adjustable choke, instead of adjusting the air gap you adjust the flux electronically. the DC is derived from the output signal using a dc amplifier. before big IGBTs came along AVRs used to work like this. i had one that used the idea. you need someone who knows about this stuff. i know a bit but not enough. i do know someone i can ask if you like. just another possible option. i was going to do this myself but apart from the welder my genny output is fine for all my stuff.
-
Possibly Bob, even just as a 1:1 transformer without messing about with AVR windings
I have my eyes on a scope at the moment which will be a useful addition if it goes cheaply
-
found the thread i was looking for.
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=147181.0
a
the things i was thinking about are called magnetic amplifiers. i will hang on to the auto transformer then,was going to give it to the scrapman. will bring it and the UPS over next time i am up there. can stick them in the van as ballast. need some weight in the back anyway. hit the brakes hard and the back end slides all over the place.
-
That is very kind - you can have some biodiesel in there as ballast on the way home :)
Next time you come hopefully all will be much calmer (ie not building a playhouse) so we can have a play with the UPS, transformer and the like.
Your AC understanding is far greater than mine.
-
I did some more scoping of the generator today with JulianF's help
In all of these cases, the generator is not connected to the house. The scope is running from the mains supply (not generator) and any loads mentioned are running from the generator
Here is the genuine mains waveform
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141114_130636_zps348fhdjy.jpg)
Here is generator output with no load at all. Nothing like a sine wave at all and more like a mountain range.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141121_142140_zpss5b1yilg.jpg)
Here is the generator output with a purely resistive load (2.2KW electric kettle) only and nothing else. I expected this to be the best waveform but it is really spikey and triangular
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141121_142236_zps7kohsucl.jpg)
and here it is driving a large motor load (2.5HP compressor on load). Despite being inductive, this is the closest to a sine wave and is actually not a bad waveform at all
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141121_142315_zpsfohnzqjn.jpg)
-
I must confess, I don't fully understand exactly how the capacitive excitation works. I found really very little information on it, and only really came away with a vague idea of how it operates.
However, what I can see from the below is that the generator inductance and capacitance are 'ringing' - that's what's giving the lumpy waveform. From what I learnt when I researched it, they're supposed to ring somewhere near the excitation frequency - i.e. 50Hz. It's clearly quite a long way above that.
You could try quadrupling the value of C and see what happens. Check the voltage with a new capacitor though before powering anything from it. My engineering reasoning suggests that will lower the frequency of the ring and reduce the spikes (f0=1/2pi(sqrt(LC))). Although as I don't really fully understand it, I might be wrong!
-
Hi James
Are you sure it should resonate at the fundamental frequency (ie 50Hz)? Some of what I have read suggests the excitation coil should resonate at the third harmonic (ie 150Hz). If so then maybe I need to increase capacitance but not by as much as 4 times.
Motor run caps are not that cheap so I dont exactly want to buy a box full but, as I have a 40uF in there at the moment, maybe I should try a 20uF and an 80uF and see which way improves the situation.
-
I have just ordered 20uF and 80uF motor run caps (1/2 and double the 40uF currently connected and enough, along with the current 40uF to allow me to try 20, 40. 60, 80, 100, 120 and 140 uF if needed by using various caps in parallel) and am bidding on a scope local to me.
It will be interesting to see what effect changing capacitance has and whether it improves things significantly
Hopefully more waveform pictures coming soon
-
Actually, that sounds familiar. It's all a bit fuzzy from when I was researching it, and as I said, I didn't really understand it to begin with.
Watching with interest!
-
The caps should be here midweek although we are away at JulianF's next weekend so I may, or may not get some waveform pics up later this week.
If not then should be soon after
-
The caps should be here midweek although we are away at JulianF's next weekend so...
Have spent most of the weekend plastering, and still the room youre sleeping in has bare stone showing!
...still,we have 5 days yet.
-
Well it looks like James was right with his chosen 40uF excitation cap
I tried 80uF which actually made the wave a bit worse at no load (much greater oscillation at the peaks) and pushed the voltage up to 260V
Dropping to 20uF caused loss of excitation and no output
Looks like a UPS will definitely be the way forward.
Having one a digital RCD tester on eBay for not much money, I will be able to confirm correct operation of all protective devices once I get the UPS installed
-
Wow, first time for everything!
-
Right, time for an update.....
Rossey very kindly sourced me some new batteries for the APC SURT6000xli 6KVA online UPS which made their way down here courtesy of Hifly and Mark230678
Clearly they were better than the old ones as these had a terminal voltage just over 100V DC each whereas the old ones were less than 12V !!
As soon as I put them into the UPS and connected the power back up, away it went happily.
Here is the waveform on the output with no load, very nice pure sine wave
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141230_184845_zps2zdpqs37.jpg)
Here it is in with mains input (not lister power) on the top trace and ups output at the bottom. Notice the UPS output is more pure sine than the mains which has flattened peaks. This is with 1.5KW of load connected as well. The cutoff trace is just down to the timing of the camera shutter, it was a full trace on the scope screen
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141230_190548_LLS_zpssluf8dwo.jpg)
This is with the Lister powering the UPS and almost no load on (just the scope and UPS battery charging). I dont think I need to mention that the Lister output is the top trace.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141230_185422_LLS_zpsy8lh66bd.jpg)
And here is the same with a 1.5KW of load connected to the UPS
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141230_190334_LLS_zpsbjnis2gi.jpg)
It bolsters the voltage nicely too.
With the 1.5KW of load connected, UPS input voltage from the Lister was just under 215V as below
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141230_190033_zpsy13an3wc.jpg)
but the output was a rock steady 230V
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141230_185825_zps1hp7lwxo.jpg)
Just to prove it was happy on the messy generator power, here is the front panel. Battery charging and no error lights..
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20141230_184912_zpsowzeggaz.jpg)
I have tested the Actifry which now runs perfectly on UPS power.
Now to build a cradle for the UPS, test the earthing arrangements and RCD operation now I know it works and connect it up more permanently.
-
Wouldn't it have been easier just to go down to the chippy for the chips ... or am I missing the point!
-
The whole point is that I want the off-grid power to be as good as the mains so I know that I can use absolutely anything without problems.
Even though other items ran OK, I suspect that they will be healthier and happier on quality power
-
He, he!
-
Looks great Jules.
I tried the similar with an old 3kVA unit. It did not appreciate trying to boil the kettle and resulted in 'letting the smoke out'. It also took aaaaages to charge the batteries.
-
This one is 6KVA so should handle things like the kettle OK (I hope) - it's rated for 4.2KW.
I've got some steel fabricating to do for it's mounting now, then some proper cabling of the UPS into the control panel.
After that I should be good to see how it goes in full service
-
Jules,
Im interested in somthing ive not mentioned before -
How does the engine now track the load?
My main concern with an off-grid setup was that it would be possible to stall the engine if too much was switched on (you say that does not happen anyhow) but with the ups, i can see that its now possible to temporarily draw more than the engine produces - which is great.
But then is the engine then separated from the load? Ie when you put the kettle on, how does the engine track this?
As you know that was one of my stumbling blocks with grid tie, but im now wondering if, with a ups, my engine could eventually be usefull to me?
-
The engine seems to track the load when the load is within the range that the engine can power. When I had 1.5KW of load connected the to the UPS I was seeing 7 amps from the alternator to the UPS input which is about right.
I do want to load the UPS to near it's maximum of 4KW, which is more than the engine can produce and see what happens in that scenario but I need to get the wiring done properly before I test it at that kind of current.
-
Right, the UPS is now connected properly and the house is running in pure sine UPS power. No flicker at all in any lights, actifry and washing machine work fine and the UPS batteries are charging on genny power.
Here is the steel frame with UPS on top. Cover the alternator nicely and will make it easy to put some weldmesh in front of the belt and flywheel too
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20150103_163623_zpsxrhkktlv.jpg)
closeup view of the UPS. The plug in the metalclad socket is nothing to do with the UPS, that is the central heating pump that circulates engine heated water to the thermal store
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20150103_163643_zpsrt9s8fyz.jpg)
The load on the UPS (and the lister) is 6A at 230V at this point. Only one LED on the UPS load bargraph illuminated, batteries charging and engine supplying all the power
Here is a view of the control panel and alternator isolator. The values shown on the LED panel meter are downstream of the UPS (ie what the house is drawing)
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20150103_163643_zpsrt9s8fyz.jpg)
UPS, Lister and panel all visible in this one.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/julesandtash/Lister/20150103_163731_zpstqfvpeke.jpg)
The engine tracks the load nicely and supplies the load up to it's maximum output (which is about 13 to 14A).
I have had 18A of load connected (4.1KW) and at that point the engine would initially supply it but start to slow down. As it slowed and the voltage fell below the UPS input threshold, the UPS switched immediately to batteries, still supplying the load and the engine the sped up as it was unloaded due to the UPS switching to batteries. As the voltage climbed, the UPS switched back to generator and teh cycle repeated.
This was a slow repeating process, around 30secs on the engine, switching to batteries for 15secs or so then back to the engine.
As such, the system seems to be just as expected now, it supplies pure sinewave power up to full output of the Lister with no drain on the batteries and can support loads in excess of what the Lister can managed for short durations (like boiling the kettle) with some help from the batteries.