Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

Biodiesel => Vehicles => Topic started by: GedsJeep on October 11, 2014, 05:20:32 PM

Title: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on October 11, 2014, 05:20:32 PM
i have a twin tank fitted in winter (just to save the battery really). now ive just been looking at the set up and it seems the three way has jammed shut. i have left it soaking in petrol overnight and will see whats happening tomorrow.

is there any bits inside that would prevent a caustic swill out?

cheers.


oh, if worse comes to worse, im in the market for one.

Ged
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: greasemonkey on October 11, 2014, 05:40:53 PM
I'd be inclined to warm it, maybe with boiling water. Once it has moved once, it might be ok, it's probably only a bit a sticky old veg holding it.
Dunno about caustic. Might be rubber seals in there?
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on October 11, 2014, 05:58:12 PM
Thats what was worrying me hence i went for the petrol first. Damaged and all that. although i will admit that heating never crossed my mind.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: Jamesrl on October 11, 2014, 07:34:18 PM
It'll be polymerisation of veg oil that's preventing movement.

Boilig water with a good dose of Finish dishwasher powder shifts it or, as I've recently discovered, Barry Scott's favourite is the dogs at getting rid of the sticky stuff.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on October 11, 2014, 07:53:09 PM
Cool will give it a go then.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: Jamesrl on October 13, 2014, 12:17:29 PM
Cool will give it a go then.


Let the cillit soak for 5 or so mins and it might take a couple of applications to totally remove the shite.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on October 13, 2014, 12:33:00 PM
Oh bugger. I forgot about it......

It been in petrol all weekend...

Will have a look when I get home
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on November 13, 2014, 10:12:42 PM
ok, been at this off and on.

left in petrol, belted it, freed it off.

forgot about it, i seized up again.

tried cillit bang, same thing, left it a week and it was seized again.

more cillit and it freed, but eventually seized again. the flow through the "at rest" side wasnt great either.

closer inspection revealed a varnish of veg oil and a few inaccessible lumps.

got this for £6:99 from halfrauds on recommendation of one of the guys on the ssangyong forum

filled it up, left it an hour, blew through with hosepipe and good as new.

(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx184/gedsjeep/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1004_zpsbrimoq3j.jpg) (http://s754.photobucket.com/user/gedsjeep/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1004_zpsbrimoq3j.jpg.html)





Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: nigelb on November 15, 2014, 04:24:36 PM
What's the active ingredient in that Ged?
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on November 15, 2014, 04:57:01 PM
the ingredients box says......

"contains xylene".......
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 05, 2015, 07:03:46 PM
so, after this happened a few times i started looking at alternatives.


i decided to splash out on this

http://www.biotuning.co.uk/ShopValves.htm

the   VSV8 valve


ive got to say, im not very impressed so far.

its made very well and the detachable power supply socket is a brilliant idea, but thats where it ends.

firstly, its supposed to run energised all the time.

ok, but after an hour, it was too hot to touch.....

also running energised means that if power fails, it returns to diesel.

now, 99.99999% of twin tankers in the world run the small tank as diesel....

so the first you know that a problem has arisen is when you run out of diesel.

secondly, there was a "restriction" on the unenergised side when you blow through it.. ok if you run diesel through the "unenergised" position as its thinner, but not if you run veg through it.

finally, the one first thing i was told to do when running veg was carry a spare filter.

the second was to fit larger bore fuel lines, preferably 10mm.

so why does it come with 8mm tails......

instructions

(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx184/gedsjeep/biotuning_zpskbbp15ao.jpg) (http://s754.photobucket.com/user/gedsjeep/media/biotuning_zpskbbp15ao.jpg.html)
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: Rotary-Motion on May 05, 2015, 07:50:58 PM
you can change the barbs for bigger

(http://www.biotuning.co.uk/images/VSV2.jpg)
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 05, 2015, 08:07:21 PM
i know, but its sort of not the point.

it adds to the "not well thought out" feeling.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: simonallen on May 05, 2015, 08:18:57 PM
I too found it strange that I need to run the solenoid energised all the time for veg oil. Ive had two observations,

1) When I ran it energised only to purge with diesel, I noticed that when I switched the ignition off and it defaulted back to veg, I could see the veg slowly mix into the fuel line and consequently into the pump (clear fuel line) which made it a pain to start the next morning agin.
2) then when I have run it energised all the time for veg and defaulting back to diesel, my diesel was leeching through the system from the small tank into the veg oil tank through the return line. I've had to fit another inline cutoff which is normally closed for this. Now, I have to rely on one solenoid being energised the whole time my car is running. Either the biotuning one for running on veg, or if that fails I need to hope that the cutoff doesnt fail and default to closed, cos then I will have no fuel supply whatsoever.

As said, the unit seems sturdy enough, but time will tell how long it is happy being energised for.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 06, 2015, 08:54:30 AM
i fired off an email to biotuning yesterday.



it seems that due to the coil size, there IS a smaller port internally on the unenergised side.

it also seems that the coil getting red hot is normal.

when i pointed out that others werent having the same problem, i was told that they were running different valves, or they were in draughtier parts of the engine bay.(they aint and it aint)

so, i need to either run the veg side energised, and pray the valve doesnt fail on the motorway and watch the oil and diesel leach through of a night, or run it unenergised and pray that the oil can get through the restriction in winter.


oh, it was also suggested that the moving fuel would remove some of the heat, and it was indeed a benefit as it would heat the oil.......



maybe these companies should talk to us.....
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 06, 2015, 09:35:39 AM
having run this so that it fails to veg last night I have encountered the next problem. the lift pump on the musso is known to be a good strong one. Capable of running single tank throughout winter. this morning it wasn't capable of pulling 1 Mic veg at 6 deg. Through the restricted side. I will run it energized today and then decide....
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 06, 2015, 04:01:04 PM
i placed a temp sensor on the black casing surrounding the coil.

it measures in degrees c.

(http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx184/gedsjeep/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1968_zpsrj6yeuzd.jpg) (http://s754.photobucket.com/user/gedsjeep/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1968_zpsrj6yeuzd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: therecklessengineer on May 06, 2015, 05:45:31 PM
That's a bit hot.

You might like to try sticking a resistor in series with it. It wouldn't take many ohms to limit the current a bit so it doesn't run so hot. You'll probably want to experiment with the lowest current that'll hold it in and make sure you're sufficiently above it.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 06, 2015, 06:00:11 PM
I understand your reasoning but at the end of the day this product has been sold specifically for use with vegetable oil . There is obviously something seriously wrong with it.

Simon Allen has one and it doesn't get anywhere near this hot. i think this is a faulty unit which to be fair could happen to anyone I just need replacing or refunding.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: therecklessengineer on May 06, 2015, 06:53:32 PM
If that's the case then, it's likely a short in the windings.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: greasemonkey on May 06, 2015, 06:54:02 PM
So it's getting hot, and it's difficult to get the oil through?
Wonder is the valve moving properly? If the valve wasn't moving properly, the solenoid would be working flat out to try and get it to open.
Might explain it.
Send it back, only thing you can do.

Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 06, 2015, 08:04:01 PM
that's exactly what I have been thinking. I sent biotuning an e-mail yesterday explained that there was a restriction on one side but I was sort of the dismissed with semi technical information about how the valve was designed.

I have just had to pull over at the side of the road and disconnect everything as the temperature gauge hit 86.2 degrees centigrade.

I'm just waiting for bio tuning to get back in touch from the e-mail I sent this morning. thankfully I paid via paypal.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 06, 2015, 08:04:57 PM
Oh.and they suggested that the heat was a good thing as it would help warm the Oil.


Really?
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: greasemonkey on May 06, 2015, 08:23:21 PM
It's irritating when there is a problem, and you get hold of some twit who has the first instinct to deny responsibility.   
It probably no skin off their nose to replace it. Just being stubborn.
Keep trying. Someone there must have some sense.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 06, 2015, 08:33:55 PM
I'm hoping so. I will publish the emails once it's sorted
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: therecklessengineer on May 06, 2015, 08:57:35 PM
Wonder is the valve moving properly? If the valve wasn't moving properly, the solenoid would be working flat out to try and get it to open.

It'll be magnetic, not motorised. So the current through it would be the same regardless of whether the physical element actually moved or not.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: Rotary-Motion on May 06, 2015, 10:21:50 PM
my valves get upto 86c most the time, but the oil is going through a heat exchanger first at the engine/coolant temp then hitting the valve passing through...
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: greasemonkey on May 06, 2015, 10:28:40 PM
Wonder is the valve moving properly? If the valve wasn't moving properly, the solenoid would be working flat out to try and get it to open.

It'll be magnetic, not motorised. So the current through it would be the same regardless of whether the physical element actually moved or not.

Would the core that slides through the electromagnet, being stuck half way, not cause the electromagnet to overheat?
I haven't had much to do with them, but they seem to buzz loudly, until it fully retracts the core.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 06, 2015, 11:00:58 PM
i have had an email from mike (owner?)

he has taken my info and tested his valves, and they all go above 90 deg when left energised and empty.

mine wasnt empty.

does anyone else have these valves fitted, simon does but he`s in rhodes.

i need to know how hot they get.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: therecklessengineer on May 07, 2015, 07:52:26 AM
Would the core that slides through the electromagnet, being stuck half way, not cause the electromagnet to overheat?
I haven't had much to do with them, but they seem to buzz loudly, until it fully retracts the core.

No, solenoid valves don't work like that.

As soon as you apply voltage, you get a slow inrush of current which builds to a maximum as a magnetic field is built. A permanent magnet then moves within the magnetic field which opens/closes the valve. The only time the current will change is if the magnet moves. As long as it is stationary, the current will remain constant regardless of where the magnet is - or even if it's there at all.
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 07, 2015, 10:04:27 AM
anyone had any experience of the pevekoil EVPT 5013.22?
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: Rotary-Motion on May 07, 2015, 08:32:46 PM
anyone had any experience of the pevekoil EVPT 5013.22?

yeah my neighbour uses 2x on his T4 twin tank system...

top notch valves!

(http://www.biotuning.co.uk/images/MV-640-480.jpg)
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 07, 2015, 09:17:37 PM
thanks RM. this seems to be the general consensus.

i will be returning the VSV8 for a credit against a pevekoil 13mm internal bore valve.

i will then review my transaction..
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: Rotary-Motion on May 07, 2015, 09:36:22 PM
you'll need the 3x barbs to fit, I think my neighbour used air line hose quick release clips, same thread

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/-OwAAOSwdsFUNoH5/$_57.JPG)

Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 07, 2015, 09:40:34 PM
cheers, i will probably get some 3/8 bsp to 10mm hose tails to keep everything the same.

just hope this is worth the 70 quid....
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: Rotary-Motion on May 07, 2015, 10:16:29 PM
cheers, i will probably get some 3/8 bsp to 10mm hose tails to keep everything the same.

just hope this is worth the 70 quid....

when my valves go I will be buying thoses too. 70 is nothing when I save £5000 a year on fuel and have done for 8 years, roughly, but you can see where im going so to speak, drop in the ocean...

keep smiling going past the fuel stations

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: GedsJeep on May 07, 2015, 10:32:10 PM
the other side of the coin is that i use the valves for 30 seconds of a night for about 5 months of the year.....

but i agree on the savings side of it.

i was happy with the telcalmit thingys until it kept staying open and losing all my diesel....
Title: Re: three way valve.
Post by: greasemonkey on May 08, 2015, 09:34:32 PM
Would the core that slides through the electromagnet, being stuck half way, not cause the electromagnet to overheat?
I haven't had much to do with them, but they seem to buzz loudly, until it fully retracts the core.

No, solenoid valves don't work like that.

As soon as you apply voltage, you get a slow inrush of current which builds to a maximum as a magnetic field is built. A permanent magnet then moves within the magnetic field which opens/closes the valve. The only time the current will change is if the magnet moves. As long as it is stationary, the current will remain constant regardless of where the magnet is - or even if it's there at all.

Ah, thanks for that. I was under the illusion that it was like a motor, that got hot if it was jammed.