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General => Wiki and forum discussion => Topic started by: Tony on August 02, 2011, 03:35:46 PM

Title: Process guide
Post by: Tony on August 02, 2011, 03:35:46 PM
I've been tweeking the process guide to include water washing and other finishing steps - could someone have a peer through (especially water washers - Nige and Keith!) to make sure this is OK?

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Biodiesel_Process_Guide

Is there anything we can do to make the whole thing simpler?  Better layout? Flow chart?
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: nigelb on August 02, 2011, 05:02:37 PM
Everything looks ok to me Tony. A flow chart might be useful for some. Deffinitely worth putting one together jusst to see how it looks.

Nige
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Julian on August 02, 2011, 06:50:44 PM
I agree, a flow chart would make it easer to understand ... another use for an image map me thinks!
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: K.H on August 02, 2011, 08:03:47 PM
Looks OK to me
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: MattC on August 17, 2011, 09:50:53 PM
I've had a go at a high-level flowchart based on a GL-style process and uploaded a couple of alternative versions. Not sure how to direct you to the images but maybe you can take a look and see if you think they could be used.  Let me know what changes you think are needed and I'll update as required.

[edit]
Seem to be here: http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:Gl_process_01.png
and here: http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:Gl_process_02.png

How do I see a list of all uploaded images?
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Julian on August 17, 2011, 10:03:37 PM
Those are rather smart Matt ... we like!

To view recently uploaded files go to "Special pages" in left hand menu - toolbox, then "Gallery of new files"
or if very recent you can look at "Recent changes" in the left hand menu - editors box
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Tony on August 18, 2011, 12:21:47 AM
Those flowcharts are the dogs danglies - very nice  8)
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: MattC on August 18, 2011, 12:47:42 AM
Thanks.  Which version do you prefer - top-to-bottom or left-to-right?

I guess we need a whole bunch of variants, with/without glyc pre-wash, water wash, WBD, 2-stage, etc.?  Should they also show the appropriate points to perform tests?  Should they also include conditional branches (e.g. Perform 27/3 test.  If pass then this else that)?

Might also be nice to have one chart showing the process steps for the major variations side-by-side for ease of comparison?
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Julian on August 18, 2011, 02:19:38 AM
Personally I think I prefer the vertical one, but it ought to be you decision, you did the graphics.  Possibly start with a basic one, then perhaps an all encompassing version, sections of which could be boxed off as options.

As you say, problem is there are so many variations!

Can you turn it into an image map linking to the various operations and components?   If not, I don't mind having a stab.  I already had a play here ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Image_map_test  two top left switches.
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Tony on August 18, 2011, 02:14:22 PM
I'd say vertical, just because it has more room for expansion vertically with extra steps.
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: K.H on August 18, 2011, 09:35:48 PM
Thats really good stuff Matt,well done,wish i could do things like that
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Tony on August 19, 2011, 08:56:27 AM
I was just about to put it on the GL page (before the operating steps) but the steps numbered in the diagram don't tie up with the "operating steps" on that page.

IE step 1 dewater ties into steps 1-3 of the GL process.

However, I like the diagram as-is.

Could make the GL process Step 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 for oil in, heat, dewater?

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: MattC on August 19, 2011, 10:23:04 PM
I suppose I should have consulted the existing text before launching in.  That's just the way it came out of my head.  I'll take a look and try to produce something that matches the GL sequence more closely.  It was done in Powerpoint.  If you like I can send you the original file to play with.
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: MattC on August 19, 2011, 11:05:55 PM
Here's another one I've been working on for a while.  Please let me know if there are any inaccuracies/omissions or improvements.  It could perhaps do with some temperatures in the "heat" boxes and maybe some timings? 

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:Process_flowchart_01.png

Also, I'm not very well up on water washing, so this might need a bit more detail.  For example, do people usually evaporate off the methanol beforehand or does this come out in the wash?
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Tony on August 19, 2011, 11:50:51 PM
I think the beauty of your first diagram was simplicity.

Personally I'd rather adapt what the page says then your diagram - it's by far the best flow description of what we do than anything I've seen before.
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: MattC on August 20, 2011, 05:19:55 PM
Yes.  I agree about the simplicity.  That was the main objective of that one.

The second one was designed as a more detailed view providing comparison of various different options - mostly to allow me to get hold of where the differences lie.
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: K.H on August 20, 2011, 08:42:31 PM
With water washing theres no need to bubble off the meth the water removes it,but you do need to settle if you just use a drywash tower or it will quickly block
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: MattC on August 24, 2011, 11:38:51 AM
OK.  This one: http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:Process_flowchart_01.png

is now updated with some corrections (after reading abit more about water washing and WBD), some markers to indicate which process variants are which and it also now includes AAF.

Please take a look and let me know if you can think of any other improvements
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: MattC on August 24, 2011, 11:45:43 AM
I was just about to put it on the GL page (before the operating steps) but the steps numbered in the diagram don't tie up with the "operating steps" on that page.

IE step 1 dewater ties into steps 1-3 of the GL process.

However, I like the diagram as-is.

Could make the GL process Step 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 for oil in, heat, dewater?

Any ideas?

Alternatively, I could simply remove the numbering of the steps in the diagram.  The numbers don't really add much and it's probably best not to introduce any scope for confusion.  I should also change the title to the more precise "GL Process Overview".
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Tony on August 24, 2011, 04:35:26 PM
That is really, really good.  8)

Oh and yes if you could remove the step numbering form the GL process guide then that would be fantastic :)
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: MattC on August 24, 2011, 06:19:02 PM
Done. 

What's next?
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Tony on August 25, 2011, 11:27:00 AM
Brilliant - these pages are now updated:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Biodiesel_Process_Guide (rejigged the text to match the diagram more closely)
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Processor_-_with_Methanol_condenser_%28GL_design%29
Title: Re: Process guide
Post by: Julian on August 27, 2011, 05:28:56 PM
Done. 

What's next?

Matt ...

Have a look here ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Special:WantedPages  any one of these would be good.

I'm making slow progress on thermocouples, Keith is in the middle of his water tester and, I think, was going to do a bit more on the "KH multi-tosser". I've also made a start on testing Methanol, but hit a brick wall with the formula to convert SG into %Methanol ... keep forgetting to contact Methanex!

The world's your oyster really, if there's a subject you think needs covering, go for it.

If you want any graphics doing, I'm happy to give them a bash.