Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
General => Wiki and forum discussion => Topic started by: Julian on April 25, 2014, 10:39:11 AM
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Over the winter I've been burning glogs made from 7% washed glycerin and I have to say they've been burning fine, so I've modified the glogs page to reflect this.
Haven't written it up yet but initial experiments with my stacking cubie idea seems to be working well. Once I've got something a little less improvised I'll post it up.
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We no longer use card here. Our fire is different from most, being more like a pit than an open fronted thing, but, currently, we mix sawdust and glycerol to a 'damp' but not wet consistency (ie looks like damp sawdust, rather than slimy sawdust) and skuttle it in.
Via Kinghty, i hope to compress the mix in the future, but the lack of a card outer certainly speeds up production, and also makes for much lower ash at the end of the burn.
Lastly, this method does not seem to require the same draft up from the grate as card glogs needed [here]. Its more of a top down burn. I may even consider removing the grate from the fire, so as to be able to load with more fuel.
Our 300ltr ish thermal store was up to 90c two days ago. The hound is ill at the moment, so i lit the fire in the morning for him, but then let it burn out. We lit it again for the evening meal, hence getting up to 90c. Normally it hovers between high 60s and low 80s from a once per day burn to cook dinner.
And to think, my lovely neighbour wanted so badly to put a stop to this, whilst buying in her petrochemicals...
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Sounds good, description and photos could make a great new wiki page to accompany the glog page ... perhaps "glydust"!
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Can you make a heading on the "pages waiting to be written" section, and ill edit it as and when?
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Currently trying to win one of these on ebay -
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Dunsley-GALVANISED-FUEL-CARRIER-Model-01429-Ideal-for-Rayburns-/00/s/MTI4MFg4Njc=/z/omMAAMXQrhdTP-9m/$_12.JPG)
I know it would be simple enough to make, but if i can get it cheap enough, it saves the bother.
We have a standard skuttle with our solid fuel rayburn, but its a pain. You cant really tip it enough, so you end up slinging it toward the firebox, then you hit the front, curse, drop the fuel on the floor... then repeat.
Some sort of loading shute would simplify things further still.
edit:
I recall lojik (?) was talking about an autofeed for his rayburn years ago...
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Can you make a heading on the "pages waiting to be written" section, and ill edit it as and when?
All done.
I called it "Glydust", but that can be changed later if you wish.
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Glydust
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Currently trying to win one of these on ebay -
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Dunsley-GALVANISED-FUEL-CARRIER-Model-01429-Ideal-for-Rayburns-/00/s/MTI4MFg4Njc=/z/omMAAMXQrhdTP-9m/$_12.JPG)
I know it would be simple enough to make, but if i can get it cheap enough, it saves the bother.
We have a standard skuttle with our solid fuel rayburn, but its a pain. You cant really tip it enough, so you end up slinging it toward the firebox, then you hit the front, curse, drop the fuel on the floor... then repeat.
Some sort of loading shute would simplify things further still.
What a neat idea ...
However ...
If you considered fabrication, you could make a plunger operated by a rod through the rear end (Oooeer) having the scuttle outside dimensions to fit inside the fire door. Preload it with the correct volume, fit into the fire door opening and push the lot in with the plunger.
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Have been editing page...
With the mixture correct, it 'pours' anyhow. No need for plungers. The issue with my existing scuttle is not that it gets stuck in the bottom, but that you cant get the angle step enough without the lip of the skuttle coming out of the stove. Its a physical conflict issue rather than anything else.
Maybe one of those welding cylinders would be a good shape to use.... ; )
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Got the item shown above - GBP 5.50.
At that price i can afford to modify it if its not quite right anyhow : )
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Page is looking good.
How much liquid glyc do you add to, say, a cubie of sawdust to get the correct mix?
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Dick,
Ill need to try and quantify this, and get back to you on it (and add to the wiki).
Your rayburn would, im sure, run well on it, as ours does.
There are scales off "too rich" with the following symptoms -
Very rich - burns real sooty, with black 'cob webs forming at the top of the firebox. This gives me the fear with regard to chimney fires etc.
Quite rich - burns sooty. No cobwebs, but thick soot, which will burn off with the air inrush when you open the door (that 'glowing ant' type effect)
A bit rich - Open the firebox door, and watch any the firebricks change colour, like magic ink.
Correct - Open the firebox door and feel your eyeballs drying out. Get it correct, and it burns hotter than a rich mix. The firebricks will be white, with no residue. There will be no residue on them in the morning either. Limited smoke from the stack, which, although smells different from pure wood smoke, does not smell overly offensive.
Off the top of my head, id say, possibly, a ratio of 1:5 - something like that? Maybe even 1:6?
This may seem like a poor way of getting rid of glycerol, which, at those ratios, it may be, however, we have found that its so much easier to burn in those concentrations, that we end up burning more of it in total, even though the ratio is lower.
Its not uncommon for the hotplate on our rayburn to be glowing red hot. I suspect the flue is probably pretty clean with those sort of exhaust temperatures : )
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Interesting? I will give it a go when the rayburn is on in the autumn.
How do you mix it?
Do you run run the rayburn just on Glog or start with wood to get it hot?
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I'm going to try this on my wood burner having discussed it at length with Julian (F) - very confusing with three of us on the same thread.
Probably not the best time of year to try it but worth a play.
If it works, I have thoughts about a number of pre-charged containers of glydust (possibly with plungers as described above) next to the stove and, as it burns down, just empty another one onto it.
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Interesting? I will give it a go when the rayburn is on in the autumn.
How do you mix it?
Do you run run the rayburn just on Glog or start with wood to get it hot?
If you mix with good, dry glycerol, its easy to light.
I was stuffing a length of 100mm tube with screwed up paper, filling the firebox with the mix all around it, withdrawing the tube, leaving the paper core in place, and then lighting the paper. This would draw nicely.
However, we ran out of newspaper the other day, so i filled the firebox right up, and then made a little wigwam type thing with slithers of wood (just small) on top, and lit them.
You can pretty much just light the mix though. Its really so much easier than glogs, but i dont know how it would physically work in a standard log burner, where you couldnt 'tip' in a decent amount in the same way.
We have a log burner too, but its not active at the moment. Ill either burn real logs on that, or, pending contraptions via Knighty, compressed versions of the same mix. Either way, i dont intend on going back to card, as its just hassle to collect, hassle to stuff, hassle to clean up the ash from, and, in my own experience, this mix burns so much better.
As per my post on the navitron forum, i can go from cold, to boiling kettle in 25mins on our rayburn now. Which seems like an age compared to a 90second electric kettle, but, i think, its pretty good for a large lump of cast iron.
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I was thinking more of the method used to create the Glog when I asked "how do you mix it" rather than the dryness of the mix.
Do you just pour the glyc onto sawdust and mix with a stick or is there a better way?
I am beginning to feel a gass bottle burner coming on that heats the hot tub in winter!
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Sorry - missed that part of the question.
Mixing is somthing i would like to improve. Currently i do it by hand. Pour molten glycerol onto a bed of sawdust (in a plaster's trough, mix to a a slurry with half a snooker cue (convenient, and i dont like snooker ; ) then add a load more sawdust to the slurry, and mix by hand (literally).
I have a cement mixer, but too much dust comes out. I also have a plaster mixer, but dont think that would work well. What i think would be best would be a large screw type mixer in a 205ltr drum. Or some way to rotate whole drums with their clip tops on.
My casual plan is to leave plastic 205ltr drums at the sawdust place, pick them up, add the right amount of glycerol, give it a bit of a mix, and then leave it for weeks to homogenise as best as possible.
Basically, i dont have mixing sorted yet. Id be interested if anyone comes up with anything.
Mixing enough for a log burner would be no real bother, but the rayburn is our sole source of cooking / heating / dhw, so, whilst its near to zero financial cost, im very much on the lookout for ways to lower the labour component.
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I mix my glogs far wetter than Julian, much to his disapproval! I struggle with the thought of mixing the stuff ad infinitum to get an approved consistency. However I will try lightly dampened versions on the next batch ... never let it be said I don't have an open mind.
My glogs don't give any of the sooty symptoms Julian describes, but I do burn them with a nominal amount of wood. I also think various flue and air supply arrangements will have a massive affect on the way these things burn. It's really not viable to make a "one statement fits all" in this respect.
I've been playing with a storage method that allows wet glogs to drain and they are far dryer than previously. My current process is to massively over wet the sawdust and mix roughly, also by hand. I then stuff carpet tubes which have a length of packing tape over the bottom. The mix is placed in and compacted (not with any great effort) and then transferred to my "champagne fountain" storage rack.
This consists of cubies with the top cut off. The cut corners are heated with a hot air gun and stretched so the top flares out. Holes are then punched in the bottom at all four corners with a wad punch. Five tubes can be fitted in each cubie and as they are all cut square and to identical lengths, about an inch and a half shorter than the cubies, on a band saw, one cubie will sit quite securely in another.
Excess glycerin drains from each glog and down the stack, and the sawdust has a good length of time to absorb all it wants. Currently all the glycerin collects in the bottom cubie from which the holes are omitted, but I'm toying with a better drain arrangement.
So far it works quite well, and contains 100% of the glycerin. With additional support each stack could be made quite high, so far I've not exceeded 6 high unsupported.
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I mix my glogs far wetter than Julian, much to his disapproval!
Me? Whilst i may suggest something, ultimately, i care very little what you (or, indeed, anyone else) gets up to!
; )
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I reckon this is what i need for mixing -
(http://www.cwplant.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2-1MAN-POST-HOLE-BORER.jpg)
(or, somthing like that, that costs under £15! : )
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I reckon this is what i need for mixing -
(http://www.cwplant.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2-1MAN-POST-HOLE-BORER.jpg)
(or, somthing like that, that costs under £15! : )
Got one of those, excellent for fencing may try it on Glog mixing later in the year.