Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
General => Wiki and forum discussion => Topic started by: Julian on July 21, 2011, 10:27:48 AM
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When I get a little more time I'll throw up some ideas for the controls section, but I thought I'd start a thread just to get things moving. If anyone has any ideas, please post them up.
One idea I've had was to use the schematics of processors we already have and show positions of the various switches and sensors.
Also, as has been already suggested by Rob-b, a page on each item in the system, SSRs, PIDs, pressure switches etc showing examples, explaining their operation, how to mount them and how to wire them up.
All other suggestions welcome.
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Yup--Good plan...
I can do some schemes and have a processor half complete so can take pictures of the Oil-Pressure switch mounted in the remote-heater and the thermocouple also mounted in there....
That should give a bit of a start anyway....
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that sounds a brilliant idea on both sides 8)
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Right, initial thought is that we set up a new category ... "Processor controls and instrumentation".
Within that we can have various pages, but the primary one would be ... "Processor control schematics", as Alistair suggests. This could contain a range of wiring diagrams covering the simplest to the most complicated, perhaps, in time, even Logic relays and PLCs. All of the components mentioned on the schematics will have dedicated pages explaining as much as possible about each item.
Tony ... would it be possible to have specific areas of Alistair's schematics acting as links to pertinent pages? I have vague recollections that this was possible with a very old part of CorelDraw, but I could be wrong!
We already have Keith's (he's been quiet the last few days!) float switch page and Tony's level/pressure switch page that could be moved to the category.
I think a Noddy's guide to controls, page would be of great use too those not too familiar with the discipline, perhaps a rewrite of my post with the 230v control circuit.
I love the idea of the automotive pressure switch, especially as it's from a Land Rover! I've got an old, adjustable, industrial switch on my processor (not that I've got round to wiring it up yet!) so I think we need to cover all possibilities for all components, so perhaps wiring schematics need to simply say "pressure switch" rather than being specific.
Just my suggestions.
Open to any other thoughts.
If no objections, after a couple of days I'll create the category (if I can remember how!) and move the pages as a start.
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Tony ... would it be possible to have specific areas of Alistair's schematics acting as links to pertinent pages? I have vague recollections that this was possible with a very old part of CorelDraw, but I could be wrong!
Just had a Google and answered my own question .... it's called an image map ... Doh!
Got some reading to do now unless anyone's an expert in such matters?
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God, I'm good! I know modest old bugger!
Have a look here ... http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/image_map%20_test/Image_map_test.htm
Oil pressure switch and Cond. thermo sw. Shocked myself ... it actually works!
Can't seem to get the schematic to come up on the wiki though, it just shows the html code instead of the png file. Bit late now so not going to pursue it tonight. If any one wants a play, it's here on the wiki ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Image_map_test. The png file is already up loaded.
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Sounds good Julian
The proof of the pudding will be in the clarity of the info, I will need to do the electrics on my new piece of kit in the next few weeks so can test the theory by following the instructions when it is posted. I am putting off buying bits until I have the relevant info. I can get ahead a bit and order the PID, Alastair recomends this is one which will take a while to arrive.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-DIN-Digital-PID-Temperature-Control-Controller-D1S-/250851779551?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3a67ee63df&clk_rvr_id=249281882983
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Hey Rob-b...
That PID took exactly 7 days to arrive--Which I thought was pretty good!
I prefer it as for the User, its easier to program, there's no silly passwords to get into it and its better build quality...
Ive done a VERY basic, No Safety circuit PID and SSR scheme....
--Basically just to give idea how the PID/SSR is related/connected, rather than to follow in real life....
Tonight I'll do the same diagram with added safety circuits, one without additional SSR and one with....
Getting ther --Slowly--
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Sounds like a good plan to me :)
Julian, if you wish to use image maps within the wiki we'll have to install this extension:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap
Let me know if you want this installed.
There is also another extension for converting existing image maps into the wiki format:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMapConversion
I'm not sure we need this if you're creating maps from scratch.
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Tony ...
If you could install the image map extension we can have a play. The bitmap section of Corel will generate the image map code in html but if that doesn't work directly I think I should be able to wikiise it.
Alistair ...
Have you got a completed schematic I could start playing with?
One point I'd thought of was that the image map doesn't necessarily have to link anywhere, we can simply use the alt text to identify components or to add notes or further explanations of the graphics.
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Ok HC
I will order one up and get it here in anticipation.
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Just so we have some sort of plan to work to, these are possible pages within the category “Processor controls and instrumentation”
Too many, too few, any missing, any not needed, anyone any comments?
Processor control schematics
PIDs and SSRs
Thermocouples
Temperature controllers
RTDs
Dummies guide to simple control circuits
Float switches
Pressure switches
Level switches
Pressure gauges
Temperature gauges
Sight tubes
Removing an immersion heater thermostat
Control enclosures
Indicator lamps
Low voltage power supplies
Fuses
Relays and latching circuits
Earthing
Mains supply
Cable sizing
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Tony ...
If you could install the image map extension we can have a play. The bitmap section of Corel will generate the image map code in html but if that doesn't work directly I think I should be able to wikiise it.
Installed: http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Special:Version
Don't know if working though, as it depends on php DOM being enabled (I think it is - for XML parsing) and ImageMagick (which is definitely installed).
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Yes guys, I have a few diagrams, I see that one has appeared on the controls diagram page, the earliest I did I think...
On that same thread at goatforum 'adding pressure-level switch to prevent explosions' and at the end of thread, is the latest (and most complicated). Guess you can copy those, or I have the originals of all except the earliest.
Where do I upload the most basic diagram I mentioned earler?--Not all that familiar with the workings of wiki....
--Or should I send it to one of you guys?--You tell me whats best anyway.
Ive still a few diagrams left to draw, but they'll be adaptions or sections of whats been done already, so the differences should be clear to see....
You tell me whats needed diagram wise, and I'll sort it in next few days...
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Tony ...
If you could install the image map extension we can have a play. The bitmap section of Corel will generate the image map code in html but if that doesn't work directly I think I should be able to wikiise it.
Installed: http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Special:Version
Don't know if working though, as it depends on php DOM being enabled (I think it is - for XML parsing) and ImageMagick (which is definitely installed).
Thanks Tony, it seems to work fine, see ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Image_map_test Two switches top left.
Only difficult bit is working out the coordinates with out a graphics programme with the facility.
I'll add a sample code to the wiki mark up page on the forum.
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Yes guys, I have a few diagrams, I see that one has appeared on the controls diagram page, the earliest I did I think...
On that same thread at goatforum 'adding pressure-level switch to prevent explosions' and at the end of thread, is the latest (and most complicated). Guess you can copy those, or I have the originals of all except the earliest.
Where do I upload the most basic diagram I mentioned earler?--Not all that familiar with the workings of wiki....
--Or should I send it to one of you guys?--You tell me whats best anyway.
Ive still a few diagrams left to draw, but they'll be adaptions or sections of whats been done already, so the differences should be clear to see....
You tell me whats needed diagram wise, and I'll sort it in next few days...
Alistair ...
It's really easy to up load to the wiki, instructions are included on this page ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Creating_pages
A quick wiz through that page should familiarise you with wiki basics, although you have done some wikiing before I think.
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So we're not treading on each others toes, I've started a page on thermocouples (in draft on my pc, not up loaded yet)
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There are other wiki extensions that graphically assist with creating the co-ordinates - I'll have a look when I get a spare few moments (current batch I'm brewing is being a disaster)
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Yup--Looked at that 'new-page'--page, couldn't understand a bleed'n word!
Just tell me where to send, how to upload a diagram! I can mod a page if its there, but thats about all....
The only wikiing Ive done is addition to whats already been there, such as the Aixam page--I added a 'Aixam Mechanics' section, but the page existed before.....
All this talk of coordinates--I dunno, is it the Starship Enterprise??
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That's one of the nice things about the wiki several people can work on the same project. I don't fully understand most of it, but it's fun playing!
Don't worry about the coordinates, I'll happily take care of that bit. It just gives the facility to put several links within a diagram, that way we can take your schematic and make each component link to the pertinent wiki page.
You up load a photo or graphic thus ...
Give the file a suitable and descriptive name and make it no bigger than 2Mb, log in, click the “Upload file” link in the "tool box" in the side menu and simply follow the instructions, it's no more difficult than putting a photo on ebay.
If you still have problems you are welcome to email them to me and I'll re-size if necessary and up-load for you. In fact, if we are going to link components on the schematics, email them to me anyway and I'll sus out the coordinates bit before up loading. julian (at) palmergroup dot co dot uk.
Let me know what the page is about I'll start the page/pages off for you.
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HC
That's how I feel when I read your electrical explanations :-\ hehe
Each to their own, now if you want a mould making of something then I'm your man ;)
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Moulds, now that's interesting. Mind elaborating Rob?
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I am a moulder coremaker by trade, serving my time in heavy engineering for Rolls Royce making turbine casings for the middle east, it's a dying trade now with healthy and safety closing down foundries. I have since made for and advised folk how to make moulds for scultures, models casings like tram wheels or steam engine components or anything that is a casting basically.
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That's interesting. Both my grandfather (deceased) and father worked for RR.
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Agree, very interesting, I've cast model traction engine parts in the back garden, great fun and thoroughly enjoyed it. Many I did chilled and were too hard to machine, but I'm looking forward to having the time to get back to it. I'll know where to come for advise when I start it again, I had great trouble getting a "turn over pattern" for a flywheel to register properly, probably sloppy workmanship on my part!
Can you put your skills to use working out a way to cast a 4 port venturi using simple materials similar to ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Casting_a_venturi
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To be honest the way Nige has set up his venturi casting is simple already, the only difficulty is getting a core machined the way he has but the pay back pretty quick once you have it and you have people buying from you, O got one from him, less hassle for the cost.
If I only I had access to the materials and a foundry I would have looked at coming up with a mould for casting two stage eductors in aluminium, as it happens I have made two for my new set up, but fabricated them, I will post photos once I know how and have completed the build of the processor.
For info I am also currently building a quad coil condenser using 8mm manifolds and 10 metres of copper tube housed in a 4 1/2 inch steel pipe. The theory being that it will be a lot easier to solder than trying to silver solder 4 x 15mm tubes and the flange to the outer tube wall all at once.
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Simple for one suction port but not for four.
Don't think alli would be much good in caustic.
Don't know if it will be any use to you, but did you see this method of making tube plates a little while back?
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=17487
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Yes of course Ali would be no good, steel or brass.
What's the idea behind a 4 port venturi?
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More suck. A single port of 6-8mm is quite a constriction compaired with 15 or 22 mm pipework.
It's been modified since the photo was taken, but have a look at this ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:4_port_venturi5.JPG
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Ok, I've added a category "Processor controls and instrumentation" and moved level switch and float switch to it. Main page is set up to list new pages in that category.
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Just put up the start of the thermocouple page.
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Thermocouples
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thats looking really good,very impressed
PS let me know if you want an expert hand with the layout! (as smillies are frowned upon,i would just like to point out that was a joke! ) the second bit not the first
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Blimey Keith! I had to read that twice to understand what you were banging on about ... please go back to using smilies.
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PIDS arrived and look good, no flippin TC though so have ordered the one's Julian recomend, another wait ::).
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Julian/Tony
I think Alastair has a couple of shematics he would like to put up on the wiki in the PID section in Processor Controls but doesn't know how to, can one of you help? maybe get him via the Veggie site.
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I've just responded to Alistair's post on the VOD.
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I've just responded to Alistair's post on the VOD.
>:(
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You see this is the problem with those bloody little round blobs.
By hovering the mouse over it I can see the little bugger represents angry, but it doesn't explain exactly who's angry!
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Me,but im not spelling it out on here
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Ahhh, don't be angry!
Post me a nice little yellow fecker with a smile, they are, after all smilies. Which, thinking about it, rather highlights a paradox of having an angry smilie!
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Ahhh, don't be angry!
Post me a nice little yellow fecker with a smile, they are, after all smilies. Which, thinking about it, rather highlights a paradox of having an angry smilie!
:) ;) :D ;D >:( :'( :-* :-\ :-X :P ::) ??? 8) :o
:-X