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General => Chatter => Topic started by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 08:51:44 PM

Title: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 08:51:44 PM
Just wondered if we have any car electronics wizards on here that would be willing to help me out on a power steering electric project using a vehicle speed sensor
I have found some articles that probably explain if i can do what i want to do but its way above my head
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 22, 2014, 09:33:12 PM
your thinking of using the vehicle speed senser, what part of it arnt you sure of?
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Julian on January 22, 2014, 09:35:08 PM
And exactly what is it that you are trying to achieve?
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 22, 2014, 09:38:15 PM
besides electrical?
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: greasemonkey on January 22, 2014, 09:46:10 PM
Always have a go. Who's gonna be the test driver? :P
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 22, 2014, 09:49:17 PM
Always have a go. Who's gonna be the test driver? :P

the builder its what its all about
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 09:59:43 PM
And exactly what is it that you are trying to achieve?
You can buy these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Type-2-Bay-Window-Power-steering-conversion-kit-Camper-Split-Bus-Early-T2-/251417891768?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item3a89ac93b8
which are quite commonly used, but the bad bit is that it can only be controlled by a rotary switch, the ecu on the EPAS is controlled by the vehicle speed (among other things?) so i want to know if it would be possible to control it by using one of these (example)
http://sailesmarketing.com/products/transducers/universal-transducer/
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 10:00:29 PM
your thinking of using the vehicle speed senser, what part of it arnt you sure of?
It hasnt got one
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Head Womble on January 22, 2014, 10:04:25 PM
Always have a go. Who's gonna be the test driver? :P

the builder its what its all about


the builder its what its all about
[/quote]

Or the builders whipping boy if it's iffy.

Now who is this builders whipping boy (sorry, whipping old boy), isn't it the guy that didn't turn up this morning, or if he did was caught playing on his phone at 11.50am.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 22, 2014, 10:05:44 PM
Quote
help me out on a power steering electric project using a vehicle speed sensor

???
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 22, 2014, 10:06:50 PM
Always have a go. Who's gonna be the test driver? :P

the builder its what its all about


the builder its what its all about

Or the builders whipping boy if it's iffy.

Now who is this builders whipping boy (sorry, whipping old boy), isn't it the guy that didn't turn up this morning, or if he did was caught playing on his phone at 11.50am.
[/quote]

careful you may cut yourself on your wit

 ;)
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Head Womble on January 22, 2014, 10:10:37 PM
Always have a go. Who's gonna be the test driver? :P

the builder its what its all about


the builder its what its all about

Or the builders whipping boy if it's iffy.

Now who is this builders whipping boy (sorry, whipping old boy), isn't it the guy that didn't turn up this morning, or if he did was caught playing on his phone at 11.50am.

careful you may cut yourself on your wit

 ;)
[/quote]

But that's far less worrying than being test pilot of a van with no steering.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 10:11:12 PM
Ah but i happen to know that NONE of us have a phone signal where we are working, unless he was down the chip shop?
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Head Womble on January 22, 2014, 10:16:03 PM
Ah but i happen to know that NONE of us have a phone signal where we are working, unless he was down the chip shop?

As long as he was asking about their oil we'll forgive him.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 22, 2014, 10:21:04 PM
Ah but i happen to know that NONE of us have a phone signal where we are working, unless he was down the chip shop?

funny how we live for so much, but always remember the little things in life...
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: greasemonkey on January 22, 2014, 10:21:47 PM
Get ya crash hat on RM!

So basically, that power steering kit has got another knob you need to turn, to get the speed of the steering right? That sounds like a heck of a laugh.......

To be honest, I think it's the wrong thing. If you look to the left if the screen, it says....


Universal Transducer
The main purpose of the transducer is to supply a speed/distance pulse signal for use with Navigation systems,...

The guy with the EPAS system seems to have done his homework, and produced a good kit.
I can't quite understand why, if this transducer is the solution, why he doesn't include it, or recommend it in the kit.


Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 10:31:52 PM
I did say that was an example, they are used to control steering racks when the car hasn't got an electronic output, maybe this one is a  better example
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/speedo-transducer-m18x1-5-sp-trans
And i know that the EPAS ECU needs a speed pulse, what i dont know is if it needs other things as well and they talk about an 4,8 or 15 signal which i havent a clue about
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 22, 2014, 10:33:19 PM
Get ya crash hat on RM!

So basically, that power steering kit has got another knob you need to turn, to get the speed of the steering right? That sounds like a heck of a laugh.......

To be honest, I think it's the wrong thing. If you look to the left if the screen, it says....


Universal Transducer
The main purpose of the transducer is to supply a speed/distance pulse signal for use with Navigation systems,...

The guy with the EPAS system seems to have done his homework, and produced a good kit.
I can't quite understand why, if this transducer is the solution, why he doesn't include it, or recommend it in the kit.

rheostat or pentionometer, control voltage suited to speed of vehicle to how much steering power
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
Get ya crash hat on RM!

So basically, that power steering kit has got another knob you need to turn, to get the speed of the steering right? That sounds like a heck of a laugh.......

To be honest, I think it's the wrong thing. If you look to the left if the screen, it says....


Universal Transducer
The main purpose of the transducer is to supply a speed/distance pulse signal for use with Navigation systems,...

The guy with the EPAS system seems to have done his homework, and produced a good kit.
I can't quite understand why, if this transducer is the solution, why he doesn't include it, or recommend it in the kit.

rheostat or pentionometer, control voltage suited to speed of vehicle to how much steering power
Yep thats what they use but its a crap idea, ok for cruising but at other times you just havent the time to mess about with them, its the one major complaint
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 22, 2014, 10:44:47 PM
Get ya crash hat on RM!

So basically, that power steering kit has got another knob you need to turn, to get the speed of the steering right? That sounds like a heck of a laugh.......

To be honest, I think it's the wrong thing. If you look to the left if the screen, it says....


Universal Transducer
The main purpose of the transducer is to supply a speed/distance pulse signal for use with Navigation systems,...

The guy with the EPAS system seems to have done his homework, and produced a good kit.
I can't quite understand why, if this transducer is the solution, why he doesn't include it, or recommend it in the kit.

rheostat or pentionometer, control voltage suited to speed of vehicle to how much steering power
Yep thats what they use but its a crap idea, ok for cruising but at other times you just havent the time to mess about with them, its the one major complaint

yeah i know im still trying to get my head round it, how the senser fits to the back of the clock and mesures those signals
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 10:50:28 PM
It goes inline on the speedo cable, faster the cable rotates the quicker the pulse?
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: greasemonkey on January 22, 2014, 10:50:46 PM
I did say that was an example, they are used to control steering racks when the car hasn't got an electronic output, maybe this one is a  better example
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/speedo-transducer-m18x1-5-sp-trans
And i know that the EPAS ECU needs a speed pulse, what i dont know is if it needs other things as well and they talk about an 4,8 or 15 signal which i havent a clue about

I see what your saying.
It says it's 4 signal per revolution, so I'm guessing that the more signal per rev, the quicker and smoother the response will be.
I'm just guessing here, but basically the transponder is going to be giving out x amount of signals, x times per second, which is going to be called hertz?
How many Hz can the ECU read, and respond too? There is no point in going above that.

What cars have electronic power steering? One of the fiestas does, I'm sure. Not to sure which model though.
What does that use?

Like you say, it might be straight forward, at the same time, there may be different systems, and the part you get wont communicate with the ECU.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Glycer-rides on January 22, 2014, 11:00:20 PM
You should also post on the "Dazza 'n' Ged" forum, Keith...
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: greasemonkey on January 22, 2014, 11:24:32 PM
I would email the seller, and find out what ECU the unit is using. It's probably a commonly available ECU, and the manufacturer should be able to give you all the technical spec. Then from that, you'll know what parts are compatible.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 22, 2014, 11:30:24 PM
It's a Corsa B EPAS along with its Ecu, I have one here
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: photoman290 on January 22, 2014, 11:37:44 PM
all sounds a bit iffy to me. where is the failsafe if the electronics go wrong? you could have a look on some of the kit car/ racing car forums. something like the dutton or lotus 7 ones. they must have to something like that.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: greasemonkey on January 22, 2014, 11:48:01 PM
They fail safe. Or at least the good ones do.There is still a solid shaft running through the unit. If the motor goes, it's no "worse" than a power steering belt jumping off, or slipping.


It seems totally puddled to me that all these companys are producing this kit, and yet there is no simple solution to this. Done a bit of googling and they all mention knobs to alter the speed.
The one company seems to have a box that will interface a wheel speed sensor with the ECU.
One would have thought that it would be straight forward, but controlling it manually seems to be a recurring theme.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Julian on January 23, 2014, 12:06:41 AM
All seems like a lot of faffing about to me. Why not fit a bigger steering wheel or some hydraulics of a dumper!

My old series Land Rover (no power steering) had a mini metro steering wheel ... took a lot of muscle power to park it.  Had you have driven that, you wouldn't be whining about fitting power steering to a little van.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: K.H on January 23, 2014, 07:01:15 AM
They fail safe. Or at least the good ones do.There is still a solid shaft running through the unit. If the motor goes, it's no "worse" than a power steering belt jumping off, or slipping.


It seems totally puddled to me that all these companys are producing this kit, and yet there is no simple solution to this. Done a bit of googling and they all mention knobs to alter the speed.
The one company seems to have a box that will interface a wheel speed sensor with the ECU.
One would have thought that it would be straight forward, but controlling it manually seems to be a recurring theme.
Is that this one?
http://rallywiz.com/Shop/index.php?_a=product&product_id=22
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: greasemonkey on January 23, 2014, 08:29:53 AM
I saw it here.
http://www.wiringlooms.com/Products/EPAS/

Under EPAS ECUs and sensors.

They also do a torque sensor, which from what I can gather has a similar effect. The harder you turn the wheel, the quicker it moves the steering.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: therecklessengineer on January 23, 2014, 09:16:43 AM
As others have said, yes it's possible.

You need to know what the ecu is expecting in terms of pulses/rev so you can match a sensor. Some cars have the sensor in the gearbox so it's multiple pulses/rev of the wheel. Some take signals from the ABS system.

Not sure of the details on the universal system - it might be able to simulate different pulse signals, however if it doesn't then there are speedo correction boxes that'll convert it to something the ecu will understand.

Possibly the best mod I made to my landy was power steering. I understand why you want to do it.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 23, 2014, 09:17:33 AM
im still trying to work out these bits and the wires where they all go?

the black box has 7 wires

voltage knob 2

and is that other plastic bit one of thoses cable clamp on blocks like on pc monitors or car radios to stop signal interference?

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/580x624q90/600/t698.jpg)
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: therecklessengineer on January 23, 2014, 09:20:19 AM
Puzzling why you have a pot. Pots generate a variable voltage, I'd have thought (assumed) the ecu wants pulses.

But then you've got only 2 wires on the pot so it's a variable resistance. Most puzzling.
Title: Re: Calling any car electronics guru,s on here?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on January 23, 2014, 09:29:34 AM
is it you clamp the black block at the top of the picture to or round speedo cable, then bolt on the black box with 7 wires and this monitors movement inside the speedo cable?

and the knob is just to set power of steering so only needed to set once and forget about it.???