Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
General => Chatter => Topic started by: Tony on January 15, 2014, 09:21:16 PM
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Poor old gal, had engine runaway this evening.
When I stopped her the sump was full (bio+oil mix?) but rapidly draining onto the motorway. Think my IP shaft seal must have failed and filled the engine with fuel. Now she burns blue oil and leaks everywhere!
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Bad luck mate!
Would be a shame to take the RIP route, it's obvious how fond you are of it. Is an engine swap or rebuild really out of the question?
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ouch new car time then tony
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Poor old gal, had engine runaway this evening.
Scary ain't it, how much smoke behind you?
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Ahhh, stinker!
Could be worth looking at doing a recon on the motor. The way I look at things like that is, at least then you know you have a vehicle with a recon motor. It may cost a bit, but providing the rest of the vehicle is worth it, it's a better gamble than buying another vehicle and finding out its got problems.
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It's a bit 50:50 TBH. It's not stuck a con rod through the block or anything, so I suspect replacement turbo, IP seal and possibly a gasket somewhere. But she's getting on a bit, it's not the weather for mechanical playing, and I had to do a fair bit of welding last year so it might be time to call it quits.
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Bad luck, mate.
There's a VOD guy in Edinburgh who could rebuild it for you? ;-)
Difficult to get the family used to a normal car again, so might be worth an engine swap.
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Well sorry to hear that, you have had the old girl a while.
Dick
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I feel for you mate.
Second hand 2.8's aren't that cheap from what I've seen, but I don't know if I could trust your engine after a runaway,
all those revs without proper lubrication.
I know it's not the best time of year to be buying another car but Pete's selling one or both of his 4x4's.
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Ouch, sorry to hear that Tony, at least it didn't dump the rod through the side and lock the wheels up on the M-way! If there's out we can do.... search for engines/parts give a shout.
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Thanks for the kind words.
So now I need to hunt me an old diesel 7 seater of some description :)
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You have my condolences Tony, It's horrible to say goodbye to a car you know backwards and trust.
pm sent about 7 seater.
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Tony,
Can i ask -
We all know, technically, that blocking the air inlet is supposed to stop the run away, however, ive wondered, if it happened to me, if i would get it done quick enough, and also how much fun it would be trying to block an air inlet with an engine screaming next to me.
Id like to know the details of how you got on?
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Don't panic too much yet.
The smoke is horrendus because the intake system and the exhaust is full of oil/fuel.
If the engine sounds sweet,I would clean the intake up,drain the exhaust and check out the turbo/IP seal.
The same happened to me when the turbo went,I was dismayed after repairing it to find it still poured out blue smoke but the found the exhaust system full of oil.I drained out the worst and after around 10 miles of hard driving-no more smoke!
This was in the summer time for me though.......
A mate has just got himself a sharan-loads of seats which can be removed in seconds turning it into a van- I would get one of them if the Defender got wrote off or stolen-It won't rot away cos of the galv chassis and bulkhead and spares are plentiful and cheap so mechanical problems are never a major biggy.
There just crap-but I love it!
I'd be tempted to buy a car off a forum member if I needed one-I feel you would never get ripped off by one of us.
Good luck pal.
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Well, it's an ill wind ...
Although you're not called Julian, you can weld, so this is your golden opportunity to join the elite band of Discovery owners!
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Well, it's an ill wind ...
Although you're not called Julian, you can weld, so this is your golden opportunity to join the elite band of Discovery owners!
Hasn't the poor man had enough misfortune?
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Sadly it's worse than just the turbo seals.
When it went it produced more power than the torque converter could handle. We were doing 70 up a hill in the fast lane, and it started to accelerate and over-rev. My first thought was that the autobox was low on ATF, as I couldn't understand why the revs went so high, but when I took my foot off my throttle and it carried on and I realised it was a runaway.
We made our way to the hard shoulder while braking (the Delica has some hefty disc brakes all round - very glad of those), during which it started to calm down on its own (plan was to jam the autobox in reverse, and if that didn't work jump out and cut the turbo hoses off with a knife I carry on the toolbox). So it didn't carry on running away, which is lucky. But the overrun has blown some seals/gaskets somewhere because oil was running out from the IP side of the engine (opposite side from the turbo).
It might just be the IP to engine o-seal that let the oil out (it never was seated well) but given the welding and other things going wrong with it, it's getting a bit beyond the point where it's worth the effort.
Question is whether to get another one, since I now have spares aplenty :)
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Well, it's an ill wind ...
Although you're not called Julian, you can weld, so this is your golden opportunity to join the elite band of Discovery owners!
That's a step too far ;)
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Well, it's an ill wind ...
Although you're not called Julian, you can weld, so this is your golden opportunity to join the elite band of Discovery owners!
That's a step too far ;)
What, a bit too up-market?
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If your going to buy a discovery, you may as well fix the Delilah engine and weld it up at every MOT, because that is what you will end up having to do any way.................:P
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Anyone know what IP in this'n?
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/nissan-serena-for-sale-or-swap/1045108482
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Didn't Chunder run one of them on WVO? I'm sure someone did.
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I believe they are bosch or the denso copy of bosch
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They run fine on veg, no need for bio even.
They are seriously slow & prone to headgasket failure but as a stop gap, who cares?
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SERENA 2,0D-C 23/1992-94/LD20-11/4cyl./1952ccm/49kW/66,64PS/BHP/4600min-1/BOSCH KIKI/RP/1-Tank
66PS! Ye gods. But as you say, she'll do nicely. I'm no racing driver, the Delica was never speedy :)
Any clue on fuel economy?
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Hang on, you've just done 40,000+ miles in a Delica and now you're asking about fuel economy? ;)
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If you like, and know the Delica, and, as you say, have a whole stack of spare parts, how come you are looking elsewhere?
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Get another Deli, you like them have lots of spares and know exactly what to look for on the next one. If you are going to break the old one I would be interested in the bull bars etc if they are chrome.
Dick
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http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/breaking-all-parts-available-1994-2000-mitsubishi-delica-28-td-l400-exceed-super-exceed/1042937450
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201401151052070/sort/default/usedcars/model/delica/make/mitsubishi/page/1?logcode=p
http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/mitsubishi-delica
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Chap brought the Serena over, bit of a heap. Needs drop link, ARB bushes, exhaust is blowing (flexi link), tatty innards and hole in sill. Perfect. Offered him £400 cash today and he's going to think about it.
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It's got £100 worth of tax on the screen hasn't it?
£400 with 9 months mot is pretty cheap motoring overall.
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He's negotiated up to £425. Will do as a runabout until we can find something worth hanging onto. Having time to hunt will make a big difference.
Trouble is without transport taxis for kids clubs and so forth (things we've pre-paid) would cost a fair bit, as would hiring a car while we hunt. I think this is the cheapest way.
Must SORN the Deli and get the tax back on that too.
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So long as she hasn't done the head, it sounds ideal. Even if it has done the head, it'll probably survive till you find something else. Sounds like a perfect stand in.
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The head problems are mostly limited to the turbo jap import (seems to be a recurring theme) slow noisy and rusty but reliable enough.
Oddly enough the only bus my other half won't let me buy again, which is saying something when she would happily have another money pit timebomb estima
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Sorry to hear of your car trouble Tony, I was looking for deli's as a matter of interest and didn't realise they fetch so much money!
Hope you can find another one.
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get a vw bora 51 plate, go like shizz, brilliant on fuel, runs on veg, ticks over on cold start, tax it crazy cheap for a year, lovely drive...
mods to the one I know, tank sender base valve removed (plastic flap) pipe from sender to ip added ((no jionts) and due to a pump leak (cant be bother to change pump) 12 volt valve to stop flow back to tank, wired off stop soliniod valve for power on when key is turned.
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So the Serena turns out to be a rather odd one. Unlike the usual 66PS ones out there this one has a newer engine, 91PS. Certainly goes well. But finding a downpipe for it appears to be like searching for hen's teeth.
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So does that make it an imported turbo version?
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I guess so. Has all the signs of being imported. Definitely the 2.0 turbo. Looks like it has had the EGR removed already. I found drop link bushes for it on eBay (those are well shot), ARB may need some bushes... just need to do the exhaust downpipe really and weld up a rust hole in the sill. From what I've read it's closer to being a Largo and shares a lot of the same parts.
If the mileage is in km then it's on about 120k miles, much less than the Delica.
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Do I sense love beginning to blossom already?
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We need some photos Tony.
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Bit fuzzy and needs a wash but you get the general idea
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3hsCKs0iSOU/UtmV0OLIxyI/AAAAAAAABiU/DW2OkXM8fg8/w958-h574-no/%255BUNSET%255D)
Alternator belt jumped off today, it also does the oil pump and vacuum. Alternator is badly fitted, so another one to add to the todo list.
Running fine on bio, though the filler cap isn't on the sliding door side so I can't stand my drum inside while it drains, have to stand it on a 60l clamp top!
Kids think it's great, the sliding door has an electric window in it bizarrely. Climate control seems to work, no idea about the aircon.
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Do I sense love beginning to blossom already?
Oh we do love our Jap minivans, this one will be quite a challenge to get fond of though!
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Square number plate and two tone bodywork are import givaways.
Doesn't look to bad though mate, think of it as a little project for the winter.
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I want one like this, what a beauty
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-largo-/161196538712
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I want one like this, what a beauty
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-largo-/161196538712
My neck hurts now.
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Given the ol' girl bit of scrub inside and out and tightened a leaky oil union. Running on bio.
Piccies
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jNkKSOmVmrU/UtqhH2Rk2ZI/AAAAAAAABio/GU8efT0cRk4/w920-h551-no/IMAG0377)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EieHP2z56aU/UtqhI_G_2SI/AAAAAAAABiw/YeA5Dz23bwo/w330-h551-no/IMAG0376)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-L5JBz4rCxC8/UtqhJ0rus3I/AAAAAAAABi4/d77QS6vpkA4/w920-h551-no/IMAG0375)
Very little plumbing between tank and engine, behind the filter that's the tank, on the right the IP...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FhVYbawMi20/UtqhK-GRDBI/AAAAAAAABjA/8nR9qChITvI/w330-h551-no/IMAG0371)
Another angle showing the IP
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7kbItG8sId0/UtqhL8u-32I/AAAAAAAABjI/u-BagKmxnU8/w920-h551-no/IMAG0370)
Both seats back, how you get to the engine:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Bev_10bIVWA/UtqhM0e-mRI/AAAAAAAABjQ/9XhtAUivdtc/w330-h551-no/IMAG0369)
View from the other side of the car
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PsussUYnRBc/UtqhNzs-cwI/AAAAAAAABjY/Cen5LIC4VlA/w330-h551-no/IMAG0366)
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As the engine is under the seats....what's under the bonnet?
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As the engine is under the seats....what's under the bonnet?
Very good point, Nige.
I quite like the idea of working on the engine under cover.
Getting the rocker cover off looks to be a bit of a task.
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under the bonnet is the spare tyre!
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get a vw bora 51 plate, go like shizz, brilliant on fuel, runs on veg, ticks over on cold start, tax it crazy cheap for a year, lovely drive...
mods to the one I know, tank sender base valve removed (plastic flap) pipe from sender to ip added ((no jionts) and due to a pump leak (cant be bother to change pump) 12 volt valve to stop flow back to tank, wired off stop soliniod valve for power on when key is turned.
Nah you need a MG ZR swap the injectors, up the boost will wheel spin in third.
Mines at around 140bhp, but 185bhp isn't hard to achieve!
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As the engine is under the seats....what's under the bonnet?
Very good point, Nige.
I quite like the idea of working on the engine under cover.
Getting the rocker cover off looks to be a bit of a task.
Its quite easy to drop the engine these.
Two blokes and a old seat belt you cab get it back in.
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Didn't realise it's an auto, nice.
Bit like a modern day BMC J4 van really.
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Cambelt looks to be hell of a job, several days work without being able to see everything you do.
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ERK! That does look a bit of a swine. I think I'd be considering if it would be easier to pull the motor out altogether, or at least get the front end up in air, and drop the front of the motor down.
Your going to have to jam the motor somehow by the looks of it, being as it's a sludge box. Either that or try and borrow a cordless impact wrench, to undo the bottom pulley. That could be a swine of a job, being as you can't get good access.
A cordless impact wrench is a marvellous thing, or even a pneumatic one and a compressor.
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I imagine the age old trick of disconnecting the stop solenoid, sticking a breaker bar on the bolt with the handle well wedged, and cranking it would do the trick. Either way, not much fun getting into that kind of space.
The change interval is 54k miles or 54 months. I think I'll work on the premise that it's unlikely to fail in the limited time that we own it.
I'm very much leaning in the direction of a Nissan Largo Highway Star, which is essentially the same thing as this Serena but rather sleeker. (And some come in 4x4).
I remember at the time we picked the Delica that the Largo was a contender - just wasn't willing to make the jump to a vehicle with unusually hard to trace spares - the Delica shares a lot of parts with the Pajero/Shogun (or so I thought - that's not entirely true).
But now I have five years of sourcing odd jap parts under my belt I feel a bit more confident about a Largo.
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I do like the look of the Largo. A very pretty vehicle. I also like the look of the Estima.
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dropping the engine to do work like cambelt would be much quicker in the long run.
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Looks like the IP is driven off a separate belt at the rear of the engine. I suppose that way if the IP shaft seal leaks then it doesn't risk the cambelt. But that does mean two belts that need maintaining.
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Looks like the IP is driven off a separate belt at the rear of the engine. I suppose that way if the IP shaft seal leaks then it doesn't risk the cambelt. But that does mean two belts that need maintaining.
My MG's are like that.
Means that if the ip fails you don't have to rebuild the top end.
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I do like the look of the Largo. A very pretty vehicle. I also like the look of the Estima.
As a paid up member of the owners club I have to say.
Back away from the pretty Jap bus then back away some more. I love them they are great to drive, carry 8 people and still have room for luggage and the bodywork seems to last forever without rusting......
However, cylinder head is guaranteed to crack sooner or later and like the Serena changing the cam belt is a nightmare, not forgetting the extra driveshaft that runs the aircon, radiator fan and alternator goes through bushes for fun and they're murder on fuel.
That said I'd have another one like a shot as long as it was in perfect working order and had just had a new head fitted.
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I do like the look of the Largo. A very pretty vehicle. I also like the look of the Estima.
As a paid up member of the owners club I have to say.
Back away from the pretty Jap bus then back away some more. I love them they are great to drive, carry 8 people and still have room for luggage and the bodywork seems to last forever without rusting......
However, cylinder head is guaranteed to crack sooner or later and like the Serena changing the cam belt is a nightmare, not forgetting the extra driveshaft that runs the aircon, radiator fan and alternator goes through bushes for fun and they're murder on fuel.
That said I'd have another one like a shot as long as it was in perfect working order and had just had a new head fitted.
Is that Estima or Largo? (Or both?)
The Delicas also had bit of an internet reputation about head failure and cracking but I didn't let that put me off :)
I suspect a lot of failures are due to poor maintenance.
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What is it with these jap cars and cracking heads?
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The 2.4 td engines from toyota had a design flaw where the water jaket was too close to the surface of the head. Asymmetric rate of thermal expansion and contraction causes the thinner part to fatigue and crack. This is my understanding of it. As a remedy the head from the 2.8 NA was fitted and it resolved the issue.
Another thing to keep in mind is that most of these cars are old. How many 20 year cars do you see being used (or abused) as daily runners.
A lot also get used as tow vehicles.
Speaking to a head specialist he told me that it was nothing surprising to see cracked heads on newer engines, these start as hairline cracks and would probably kill the engine in the long run. Except that most of these cars die of other mechanical issues before the crack in the head becomes noticeable issue.
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I do like the look of the Largo. A very pretty vehicle. I also like the look of the Estima.
As a paid up member of the owners club I have to say.
Back away from the pretty Jap bus then back away some more. I love them they are great to drive, carry 8 people and still have room for luggage and the bodywork seems to last forever without rusting......
However, cylinder head is guaranteed to crack sooner or later and like the Serena changing the cam belt is a nightmare, not forgetting the extra driveshaft that runs the aircon, radiator fan and alternator goes through bushes for fun and they're murder on fuel.
That said I'd have another one like a shot as long as it was in perfect working order and had just had a new head fitted.
Is that Estima or Largo? (Or both?)
The Delicas also had bit of an internet reputation about head failure and cracking but I didn't let that put me off :)
I suspect a lot of failures are due to poor maintenance.
Estima and while I'd say maintenance can hold it off for a few miles they're a certainty.
I had 4 estis and while only 2 died because of the head the other 2 had cracks when I stripped them down to sell/give away for spares.
My first was a fresh import well maintained and managed over 70k miles before a leaky fuel pump destroyed the timing belt. Minor cracks starting to show. when I pulled the head off for repairs
My second was a J reg that had had a cracked head replaced 3 years prior to me getting it. Disappeared in a cloud of steam and almost complete loss of compression. Head completely shot
My 3rd developed crankshaft problems but as far as I was aware the head was good (having been a recon engine a year before I bought it) so I thought I'd donate it to someone else in the club, pulled it off it was knackered.
My 4th developed a cracked head but I plugged it with k-seal and plodded on til the MOT was up, to time consuming to repair.
Bearing in mind that while I had these they were meticulously maintained 5000km oil changes, new timing belt, ATF flush through and a coolant change (a new radiator and stat in one case as well just because I believed the preventative maintenance theory too at the time).
However the Serena I had I ignored accidentally boiled it dry, changed the filter when it blocked and only changed the oil when the garage had it for a timing belt change, that made 1 oil and filter change around 50000miles in a car I did around 100,000 miles in if I remember right.
Was still running like a dream when I traded it in.
The 2.4 td engines from toyota had a design flaw where the water jaket was too close to the surface of the head. Asymmetric rate of thermal expansion and contraction causes the thinner part to fatigue and crack. This is my understanding of it. As a remedy the head from the 2.8 NA was fitted and it resolved the issue.
Another thing to keep in mind is that most of these cars are old. How many 20 year cars do you see being used (or abused) as daily runners.
A lot also get used as tow vehicles.
Speaking to a head specialist he told me that it was nothing surprising to see cracked heads on newer engines, these start as hairline cracks and would probably kill the engine in the long run. Except that most of these cars die of other mechanical issues before the crack in the head becomes noticeable issue.
Pretty much, although the 2.2td in the Esti is even more prone to fatal cracking than most, some of the buses on the owners club that gave up hadn't reached 10 years old and were well under average miles for their age. While their petrol alternatives run almost forever with little problems (other than the fuel bill :dork: )
Probably wouldn't stop me from having another, I miss the space
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Thanks for the info JMG, very interesting. Yours were very well maintained by the sound of it.
My neighbour has an Estima, it's a very nicely maintained one too (red and black, looks lovely). He's had that for longer than I've owned the Delica (and we've put bio in it and it's been fine!). I should go chat to him about his and see if he's had to do anything with the head.
The Largo comes with either the 2.0TD or 2.4 petrol. I don't know the provenance/reliability of the 2.0, but from what you say it's not sounding great.
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Re-reading that maybe not if you say you boiled it dry and it was fine :)
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The vehicles sound like an ideal candidate to have a better engine slotted in them.
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Re-reading that maybe not if you say you boiled it dry and it was fine :)
I ran over some debris on the motorway in the Serena and it took out a coolant pipe, I didn't notice until the thing overheated.
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Hope it has an 8 track of sorts..?
Yes, I'm on looking after the baby nightshift.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaaYSJ0Tn68&list=PL1FE019826CD9BEFC
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Another plus point on the Largo, cheap fuel pumps
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-LARGO-2-0-TD-CD20-07-1993-1995-DIESEL-FUEL-PUMP-MECHANICAL-TYPE-/190785713361
From a breaker that'd cost well over £100 on a good day for the Delica.