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Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 09:36:19 AM

Title: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 09:36:19 AM
using my new feedstock mcdonalds oil which is a blend of sunflower and rapeseed oil.

I did a 65 litre batch added about 12 litres methanol and base amount of koh per litre.

I was surprised to see no glycerol when I opened the drainpipe.

did a 50/50 shake test and it seperated quite quickly leaving clear water and no emulsions
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glcerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 09:39:20 AM
http://https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=299222293550201&set=a.115291161943316.16830.100003872979703&type=1&theater
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glcerol free batch of bio
Post by: 1958steveflying on September 15, 2013, 09:42:46 AM
A strange result, what was the result of your 10/90 test ?
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 09:52:42 AM
don't have any clean methanol to do one. Must titrate the oil to see what it comes out at. Had this once before with brand new oil no glycerol the water does look a little cloudy in 50/50 test
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 09:54:12 AM
I left bio overnight in processor
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: Jamesrl on September 15, 2013, 10:09:41 AM
It's impossible to make biodiesel without producing glycerol.

We remove the glycerol molecules from the triglycerides and replace them with methanol molecules the glycerol then drops out.
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 10:18:50 AM
then should I add some more methanol and catalyst
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 10:37:23 AM
will try doing a 27/3 test that's all I can do to see if its reacted. Its probably cos I'm skimping on the methanol hat no glycerol I read that less methanol is better in reacted bio cos it holds soap
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 01:41:11 PM
dipped the top of processor and seems very clear liquid like methanol. adding another litre and 85 gs more koh to give the batch a push to react
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: therecklessengineer on September 15, 2013, 01:47:06 PM
I think you are misunderstanding slightly.

Yes - in the finished bio product you want zero methanol. It seems the methanol holds the soap in solution.

However - you must add the correct amount of methanol for a reaction to take place. Skimping on it will stall the reaction - which seems to be what's happened here.
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 02:48:30 PM
kool thanks for the advise. I'm running out of methanol so had to make a smaller batch usually make 70-75 litres. seems to be dark puddles forming in my processor now.

When heater is on
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: nigelb on September 15, 2013, 04:59:35 PM
Worry ye not Julianf...methanol when mixed with a catalyst and blended with oil does not boil at 65C.  Methanol as a liquid does....but not as a mixture.

However, I'm with you on asking the question..."how do you know there are dark pudles forming in the reactor"

BTW alifreddy you are not skrimping on methanol. If anything you are adding too much at 20%
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 05:23:00 PM
tried draining and gone a more orangy colour still no glycerol after an hour and a half settling looked in top of processor saw black puddles.

When I was heating


will only tell when I put it in my van if its ok or not think in the end put about 550gs koh and 13 litres methanol to 65 litres of good oil
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: Jamesrl on September 15, 2013, 05:52:55 PM
tried draining and gone a more orangy colour still no glycerol after an hour and a half settling looked in top of processor saw black puddles.

Whne I was heating


will only tell when I put it in my van if its ok or not think in the end put about 550gs koh and 13 litres methanol to 65 litres of good oil

Your Koh is only just enough for NEW veg let alone used.
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: nigelb on September 15, 2013, 06:23:13 PM
will only tell when I put it in my van if its ok or not

There are plenty of tests to see if your bio is good enough for your van or not! Don't just stick it in.

We may only be dealing with shed science here...but it's science nonetheless.
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 15, 2013, 06:27:53 PM
did a 50/50 test and it split ok just need to buy some more methanol to do a  27/3 test
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: willbuild on September 15, 2013, 06:56:17 PM
for the amount of oil you have processed, there must be at least 15 lts of gly.
as Julian mentioned the amount of catalyst you have used is the minimum required to process new cooking oil.
you def need to do a 27/3 test and see what proportion of the 3 parts oil falls out, then add the catalyst that is needed, you need to add very little methanol, just to dissolve the catalyst
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 16, 2013, 08:21:10 AM
did a titration and it took about 6.5 ml of sodium hydroxide solution to get a colour change quite heavily used oil.

Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 16, 2013, 08:52:14 AM
after 3 titrations 4ml for a 15 second change and 6ml for a permanent change quite heaviliy used oil
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: willbuild on September 16, 2013, 08:34:35 PM
so the value is 6.5= 6.5 grs per litre of oil plus the base rate, so you need to add the 6.5 grs per litre of oil, as you have already put in the base rate.
I would put in 5grs per litre with enought methanol ot get it to dissolve. and re process, then do a 27/3 test. good luck
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 16, 2013, 09:40:27 PM
thanks guys got a reaction and 10 litres of glycerol and bright clear bio. will always titrate before  do a batch now
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: willbuild on September 16, 2013, 11:07:38 PM
there is at least 5 litres of glycerol and 12 Lt's of methanol to account for. some of the methanol will be in the bio and some is in the glycerol
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 17, 2013, 08:11:26 AM
its important I get my catalyst correct as my processor only heats to 50 degrees then cuts out with a thermostat. I have a plastic conical processor but was using a hot water copper tank with a tap on the bottom and always getting a full reaction with that cos it got very hot the heater packed up then it started to fall apart the stand and piping bought it for only 20 quid off ebay and resold it for 20 for scrap
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: willbuild on September 17, 2013, 01:30:03 PM
some pics of my set up
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: willbuild on September 17, 2013, 01:32:15 PM
later pic
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: Tony on September 17, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
Wow look how clean it all is :)
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: willbuild on September 17, 2013, 03:05:36 PM
I know, all other members compeat to see who has the dirtist shed. maybe I''ll change as i get more batches under my belt :o
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: nigelb on September 17, 2013, 06:51:54 PM
I know, all other members compeat to see who has the dirtist shed. maybe I''ll change as i get more batches under my belt :o

No competition there my friend. Tony's shed is the dirtiest I've ever been in....closely followed by Jims ;)
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: Jamesrl on September 17, 2013, 10:09:13 PM
I know, all other members compeat to see who has the dirtist shed. maybe I''ll change as i get more batches under my belt :o

No competition there my friend. Tony's shed is the dirtiest I've ever been in....closely followed by Jims ;)

Now that has pee'd me off,  I ain't used to coming second.

Anyone know where I can get some more good quality crap, I just gotta beat that young pretender?
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 18, 2013, 08:05:35 AM
I'm now out of methanol found someone selling virgin grade on ebay 60 p per litre in Newark going on Saturday to get some.

how do I embed pictures on here??
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: julianf on September 18, 2013, 11:01:37 AM
upload them somewhere and then, when you type the message, add the image url, highlight it, and then hit the little icon that is under the "B" and next to the globe.
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: Julian on September 18, 2013, 05:40:01 PM
how do I embed pictures on here??

Do you ever read the replies to your posts?  People take time and trouble to help you and appear to get ignored ... I'm starting to wonder why they bother.

SEE THIS THREAD ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1511.15.html
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 18, 2013, 06:08:56 PM
I tried what u said but doesn't seem to work just makes a cross if I highlight link and press insert image dunno where I'm going wrong
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: julianf on September 18, 2013, 06:46:41 PM
what link are you trying to post?

paste it into a message, plain text, so as we can check.
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: alifreddy on September 18, 2013, 08:15:06 PM
was gonna take a pic of my processor and holding tank
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: julianf on September 18, 2013, 08:34:09 PM
what link are you trying to post?

paste it into a message, plain text, so as we can check.
Title: Re: made a soapfree and glycerol free batch of bio
Post by: julianf on September 18, 2013, 08:35:40 PM

Do you ever read the replies to your posts?  People take time and trouble to help you and appear to get ignored ... I'm starting to wonder why they bother.