Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 08:22:35 PM

Title: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 08:22:35 PM
runs like its starving of fuel at over 2500 rpm in 3rd seems to be more even and ok at high revs with a splash of petrol 2-3 litres per 40 litres of bio in my van

Its a Vauxhall combo 1.7 di done 223k 20 k mostly on svo and dino diesel only recently started using bio due a to a filter or tank filter blockage
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: greasemonkey on August 26, 2013, 08:39:50 PM
If you have recently started using Bio, then you almost certainly will experience a fuel filter blocked. Took me 100 miles. Now it blocks every 350, so I guess it's moved a lot of crap off the walls of the tank.
Start by changing the fuel filter.
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 08:41:18 PM
on its fourth brand new filter. done about 1000 miles
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 08:44:30 PM
this was bio made in a converted copper hot water tank that used to get very hot just had a tap at the bottom with pipework from the bottom of tank works ok without circulating heated bio round.

I'm just letting another batch I made in my etruk 100 react heated for 1 hour after glyc washing. did 75 litre batch added 14 litres methanol and 640 gs of koh see how it comes out tomorrow
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: greasemonkey on August 26, 2013, 08:46:22 PM
on its fourth brand new filter. done about 1000 miles

Same here. It's still blocking 'um, and I only put 100 litres of bio in it.
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 08:58:47 PM
am dry washing in hardwood saw fine dust. encouraging to see tds at 0 but still wanna try ion exchange resin as it claims to convert soap to free fatty acids but with a reading of 0tds there is no soap in it??
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 09:01:55 PM
added a bit of distilled vinegar to bring ph down to  just 1 25 litre drum of dry washed bio
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: Julian on August 26, 2013, 11:14:08 PM
This TDS meter, new to me , Googleing reveals that it measures dissolved solids in water.  Is it viable for biodiesel?

And how are you measuring the pH of your bio?
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 11:15:38 PM
a ph meter pen
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 11:17:23 PM
also a tds metre pen
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: julianf on August 26, 2013, 11:48:04 PM
a ph meter pen

One that is not designed to work with Aqueous solutions?
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 26, 2013, 11:53:24 PM
only started making bio diesel again and wanted to test it . I've already done a water shake test just wondered if there was anything wrong with my bio that's making my van run funny

I was running my van on wvo so that may be a factor.

I'm still getting a bit of soap in water in shake test after dry washing but a lot less than when I tested at first before wash
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: Julian on August 27, 2013, 12:39:46 AM
Hmm, I think the pH meter and TDS meter are probably a waste of time when it comes to bio.

I believe the way to test bio for pH is by titration.  Similarly for soap try a titrated soap test ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Soap_tests  NigelB on here sells the kits.

Have you cut open a filter to see what's blocking it?

Are you leaving the bio to settle for a week or so after manufacture, or just bunging it straight in the car?
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: therecklessengineer on August 27, 2013, 07:30:37 AM
Yes - the above.

What are the results of the 50/50 test? Post up a photo if you can.
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 30, 2013, 12:39:30 PM
here is  a50/50 test of my latest batch of bio before dry washing quite soapy

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=293098007495963&set=a.115291161943316.16830.100003872979703&type=1&theater
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: Julian on August 30, 2013, 12:49:06 PM

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/993681_293098007495963_1451569151_n.jpg)

Ooo, very soapy!  Dry wash tower won't last long if you keep putting that through it.

Would benefit from reducing the catalyst on the next batch and a few more washes for this batch.
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 30, 2013, 12:57:18 PM
I glyc washed 80 litres with 20 litres of glycerol used about 7 gs per litre of koh

will do a 50/50 test of dry washed bio

was thinking I could mist spray with water in the processor just 1 litre to help remove soaps

have bought some ion exchange resin it is meant to convert soap into free fatty acids going to put at bottom of drywash tower with sawdust on the top
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 30, 2013, 02:07:03 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=293118357493928&set=a.115291161943316.16830.100003872979703&type=1&theater

here is pic after dry washing which is why I bought the exchange resin still a bit of soap in bio, this is after dry washing and passing through a 1 micron filter
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: Julian on August 30, 2013, 10:15:25 PM


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1236408_293118357493928_836736082_n.jpg)

To place a photo in a post ... once you've up loaded to where ever (in your case face book), right click on the photo and go to properties.  Copy the whole URL and paste it into your post.  Once you've done that, highlight the whole URL and click the picture icon, first icon in the second row above the text box you type in.  It'll make things a lot easier for every one to respond.


Still not looking good I'm afraid!  You could try further washes, but simply leaving it to settle for a week or more may have the same effect.

Did you do a titration on your oil?  The amount of soap you have seem excessive especially as you've only used the base quantity of catalyst.
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 31, 2013, 09:30:24 AM

(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=293467087459055&set=a.115291161943316.16830.100003872979703&type=1&theater)






here it is again after 24 hours
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 31, 2013, 09:38:37 AM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=293467087459055&set=a.115291161943316.16830.100003872979703&type=1&theater

Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: Julian on August 31, 2013, 09:46:36 AM
It would help if you answered some of the questions you've been asked.  Expecting people to solve a problem for you without giving them the courticy of an answer will get nowhere.
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on August 31, 2013, 11:24:40 AM
no I did not titrate I reprocessed a batch(30 litres) that still had gloopy Chinese oil in added 50 or so litres of better quality oil , used 14 litres methanol and about 600 gs koh
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: Julian on August 31, 2013, 12:08:11 PM
So this is a reprocessed batch of 30ltrs, to which you added another 50 litres of oil of unknown titration on which you used 600g of koh.

80 litres of oil using a base of 7gpl gives you 560g.  Bearing in mind 30 ltrs may be partially converted, you've most likely grossly overdosed on the catalyst.  You seem to be working on guess work, and then asking what's gone wrong without advising the full history of the process.

Simply throwing "about" X number of grams of catalyst into oil of unknown quality along with some methanol will get you nowhere.

My best recommendation is to read the wiki from start to finish, UNDERSTAND and HEED the advise therein.  It's been put together by many people with, collectively decades of experience.  Most importantly pay attention to safety, cutting corners while playing with dangerous chemicals and equipment could, and most likely will, have serious consequences.

You really need to UNDERSTAND what you are doing before you go any further.
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: Bill on September 01, 2013, 08:01:35 AM
excessive processing (reprocessing?)=increased soap levels
excessive catalyst=increased soap levels
horrible gloppy oil=increased soap levels

Best method to ensure your fuel is soap free=don't make excessive soap in the first place
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on September 05, 2013, 08:40:08 PM
made a new batch did a 50/50 test and no soaps. buying better feedstock oil rapeseed and sunflower.

45p a litre am getting about 100 litres every week from takeaways. will only chuck in 20 litres of bad oil to a 75 litre batch

used 500gs of koh and 14 litres of methanol for a 70 litre batch this time, only got about 5 litres glycerol and bio thin and clean of soaps

was wondering about adding vinegar does it help????
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on September 06, 2013, 08:05:01 AM
(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=295578680581229&set=a.115291161943316.16830.100003872979703&type=1&theater)


here is 50/50 test of latest batch
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on September 06, 2013, 08:05:41 AM
(http://)https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=295578680581229&set=a.115291161943316.16830.100003872979703&type=1&theater
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: Tony on September 06, 2013, 08:19:11 AM
Did you use near boiling water?  This helps it split quickly.

The water looks a little murky brown, how violently did you shake it up?
Title: Re: ph of bio diesel 9.8 tds ppm 0
Post by: alifreddy on September 06, 2013, 08:33:14 AM
looks clear to the eye used water straight out the tap shook gently and splits immediatly