Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Oil Feedstock => Oil coarse filtering, settling, drying and storage => Topic started by: neisel on August 06, 2013, 09:41:21 AM
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/mh4sp2.jpg)
I would classify this ^^^ as a pass. It's not the clearest picture & looks clearer in real life. The picture above shows my latest batch after 8 water washes, 3 mist washes & 5 pump washes. I cannot understand why it requires so many washes. It takes an entire day to do 8 washes!
2 stage non tit, KOH & new meth from Basic. I pull 140 litres of oil from the top of an IBC. The IBC is topped up after each 140 lot has been removed & then left for at least three weeks. The feedstock is lightly used oil from high end gastro pubs that change their oil twice a week. My kids say it looks like runny honey.
This lengthy water washing has been going on for a while so I've been trying to fine tune the process. Assuming I've been overdosing, using http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/tools/notitration.php this time the 1st stage was 15% by volume & 6 grms KOH. 25% drop out, using the no titration calculator I calculated the 2nd stage dose & then reduced that by 10%.
100% crystal clear pass. Lovely, thinks I, this will be a breeze. I'll be done here in a couple, three hours.
8 washes later I have what I'd call a pass on the 50/50 test.
Why is it taking so many washes?
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I've not used KOH, so don't know if that has any bearing on your issues. Nige is very occasionally right in a few matters, so give his suggestions a try.
Alternatively you could always be a total heretic and try some of the new fangled methods of washing, I know it's a virtually untried method that's only been around for Oooo, a couple of years or so, but give titrated acid washing a go ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Water_washing_titrated_acid_method it works really well for me.
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I've not used KOH, so don't know if that has any bearing on your issues. Nige is very occasionally right in a few matters, so give his suggestions a try.
Alternatively you could always be a total heretic and try some of the new fangled methods of washing, I know it's a virtually untried method that's only been around for Oooo, a couple of years or so, but give titrated acid washing a go ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Water_washing_titrated_acid_method it works really well for me.
Yes I know what do I know about bio?New to me.
But as a mechanic I have seen 1st hand what can go wrong.
The last vehicle we had in with bio problems was a ford transit,
the customer wasnt aware that bio was used. :-[
after testing everyhing we found the problem to be injectors= totally goosed
for the second time in a month.
The fuel again drained and replaced.
Now that I have started to experiment with bio-fuel I decided to have another look at the bad fuel to see if anything could be done with it.
It would seem that ACID was used because most of it is still in the fuel i made the mistake in getting some in my mouth, WONT DO THAT AGAIN! :'(
Acid washing for me would be a big no no.
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I've not used KOH, so don't know if that has any bearing on your issues. Nige is very occasionally right in a few matters, so give his suggestions a try.
Alternatively you could always be a total heretic and try some of the new fangled methods of washing, I know it's a virtually untried method that's only been around for Oooo, a couple of years or so, but give titrated acid washing a go ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Water_washing_titrated_acid_method it works really well for me.
Yes I know what do I know about bio?New to me.
But as a mechanic I have seen 1st hand what can go wrong.
The last vehicle we had in with bio problems was a ford transit,
the customer wasnt aware that bio was used. :-[
after testing everyhing we found the problem to be injectors= totally goosed
for the second time in a month.
The fuel again drained and replaced.
Now that I have started to experiment with bio-fuel I decided to have another look at the bad fuel to see if anything could be done with it.
It would seem that ACID was used because most of it is still in the fuel i made the mistake in getting some in my mouth, WONT DO THAT AGAIN! :'(
Acid washing for me would be a big no no.
Hmm, wrong person bit in the wrong way, and now you've distracted him.
neisel, DON'T try titrated acid washing ... the bio tastes horrid when you drink it ... apparently!
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Nige what happened to your post?
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The last vehicle we had in with bio problems was a ford transit,
the customer wasnt aware that bio was used. :-[
Was this a later Transit, with the multi squirt injectors?
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The last vehicle we had in with bio problems was a ford transit,
the customer wasnt aware that bio was used. :-[
Was this a later Transit, with the multi squirt injectors?
It was the duratorque engine in a 55 reg
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The last vehicle we had in with bio problems was a ford transit,
the customer wasnt aware that bio was used. :-[
Was this a later Transit, with the multi squirt injectors?
It was the duratorque engine in a 55 reg
I've heard bad things about those injectors. A mate of mine had an 05 or 06 Transit, and had serious problems with the injectors packing in. I can well see how anything except perfect bio could soon kill them.
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Neisel, I did some trials to optimise my water washing a while back because I realised it was not efficient but it was giving low soap (by titration). The important factors (as anticipated) were the number of washes, amount of water added for each wash, pumping time and temperature. It is optimising the values of these variables to get efficient washing.
I now do 2 mist washes (to prevent emulsions) and 10 pump washes and its all finished in about 2 1/2 hrs. The pump washes are short duration, the water volume at each stage is less that 8% of the bio volume, the temperature at 65C produces a quick separation of water and bio. Final soap levels are about 20ppm by titration. I am still tweaking the process to make it more efficient.
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What happened to Post 2 from nigelb about 4 washes spread over about 2 days?
nigelb, my 8 washes were spread over 2 days, with the last 2 on the morning after. The 5th wash sat for about 4 hours while I was out & the 6th sat overnight. TBH I don't see what leaving it a great length of time between washes accomplishes as AFAIK see at about 75+ degrees the water drops to the bottom of the tank v. quickly.
Bill, your method is pretty much directly the opposite of what nigelb was saying. How long do you pump wash & how long do you leave it between pump washes?
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The pump washes are 6 mins at pump wash 1 decreasing to 3 mins, settling time a bit longer than it takes to fully split probably about 7 mins. max depending on which wash cycle it is. The mist washes split quicker and are a much shorter cycle. These times were all arrived at by observation and experiment. They suit my process which at the water wash stage is automated. The cycle is water fill, pump, settle, drain, repeat next cycle.
You maybe need to optimise your process to suit you.
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TBH I don't see what leaving it a great length of time between washes accomplishes as AFAIK see at about 75+ degrees the water drops to the bottom of the tank v. quickly.
No, niether do I!
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Why did you delete your post?
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Why did you delete your post?
Because some of my posts are misunderstood. This clearly happened with your interpretation of the deleted post.
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You deleted it before I replied. As well as being a bio guru are you a clairvoyant? How did you know I would misinterpret it?
Why don't you just explain what you intended to convey instead of all this mysterious & timewasting drama?
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You deleted it before I replied. As well as being a bio guru are you a clairvoyant? How did you know I would misinterpret it?
Why don't you just explain what you intended to convey instead of all this mysterious & timewasting drama?
I'm neither a bio guru nor clairvoyant. I just had a feeling that misinterpretation would take place and I was proved to be correct. The search facility on this forum is pretty good and my methods are well documented. Four wash, wash cycles, backed up with titrated soap test results show how easy and effective water washing can be.
On the strength of these documented facts I assume that you have searched to see if there was a solution to your issues. I didn't take this into account when I posted but removed it once the "penny had dropped."
Unfortunately, I explained in the most simple terms I could.
Can I suggest you go back to the search facility where you'll find all the information you could ever want on water washing. Having done that there should be no further need for questions.
Time wasting drama? On the contrary.....adds to the spice of the forum me thinks