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General => Chatter => Topic started by: julianf on June 21, 2013, 09:43:25 AM

Title: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: julianf on June 21, 2013, 09:43:25 AM
Sadly, im already stressing about it!

Im determined to get better prepared for it this time.  Last winter i made it through on 100% bio, with no additives, but i was only able to do that due to some chance oil scores.

Still, its no fun processing in the winter at all, not to mention harder (due to heat losses, colder start points, longer settling, etc. etc.)


So, if youre planning ahead, what are you doing?

Im -

Currently not using any liquid oil - just stock piling it for the winter.
Processing all my solid oil whilst the weather is fine, no matter if i need it or not (easier to store when processed - and if i need it for the house boiler, itll be there)
Then ill move on to the liquid oil, process all of that, and store it for winter car use.

Not much of a plan, but id be interested if anyone else has any tips or tricks they use for getting through the varying seasons?
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Jmg on June 21, 2013, 10:29:36 AM
I always planning to do winter better but so far I never have. Too lazy to filter any more often and too busy/cheap to get a few gallons of mis fuel/winterizer in stock.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: kamaangir on June 21, 2013, 10:30:59 AM
Trouble with only using the solids and leaving the liquids for winter is that when you need to use it the liquid stuff will have turned solid in the cold.

Best way of doing it is if you start stockpiling all the good liquid stuff in the winter for next winter. Its probably not practical for most people due to storage or lack of a surplus.

Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Jamesrl on June 21, 2013, 11:24:16 AM
No, I'm still waiting for the last one to end.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Tony on June 21, 2013, 01:54:32 PM
Only with a sense of dread and uprated storage (and hopefully soon processing) facilities!
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: julesandtash on June 21, 2013, 09:36:26 PM
Other than getting central heating in the biodiesel end of the workshop and lining the roof with kingspan/celotex, nothing really.

The workshop is never that cold in winter but this year it should be a lot warmer. I will be buying a drum of Wintron around September I suspect and start introducing that as the weather gets colder.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 21, 2013, 10:06:53 PM
no worries here  8)
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: greasemonkey on June 21, 2013, 10:37:53 PM
Yup, starting to think about it now. Longest day today, a few weeks and the nights will be noticeably drawing in.  Won't be long before the mornings will be shrouded in thick fog.

Main ambition, fit thermal store for central heating. Get processing bio. Heat bio storage tank off thermal store, get heated and insulated tank on truck.
Once I've done that, I'll get fat and hibernate.
A coolant system heater would be nice, but if I get that far, it will be a big bonus.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 21, 2013, 11:04:33 PM
Maybe you could re-launch your winteriser offer Julian. Now seems like a good time
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 21, 2013, 11:28:04 PM
Yup, starting to think about it now. Longest day today, a few weeks and the nights will be noticeably drawing in.  Won't be long before the mornings will be shrouded in thick fog.

Main ambition, fit thermal store for central heating. Get processing bio. Heat bio storage tank off thermal store, get heated and insulated tank on truck.
Once I've done that, I'll get fat and hibernate.
A coolant system heater would be nice, but if I get that far, it will be a big bonus.

be more worried that caravan is insulated lol
##
 8)

no it aint funny, i lived that life for a long time once...
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: greasemonkey on June 21, 2013, 11:33:24 PM
Caravan is pretty well insulated, only keep it warm. Two inches of kingspan in the walls, four in the ceiling.
The biggest problem is keeping a constant heat. No matter how hot the fire gets at night it is still cold in the morning. Its not my leccy supply, so I don't want to go down that route, and I used over £100 worth of heating oil last year. I can put the thermal store together for not much more than that, and heat with a turk burner running on WMO.
It will be nice to get up in the morning and have it warm. Hate stepping out the shower when it 3C..............
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Keef on June 22, 2013, 12:12:23 AM
Funny, being a filterer, I work the other way.

I filter and stockpile as much as I can in the winter because I know I can use it at any time of year and in the summer I only filter what I'm going to use straight away in case it goes lumpy if we get a cold snap.

I've also learn't to write the temperature that I filtered at on the containers.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: julesandtash on June 22, 2013, 09:17:02 AM
Maybe you could re-launch your winteriser offer Julian. Now seems like a good time

As you found out Nige, it is a real pain in the backside for no real gain or, if you do try to make a gain, you get slated for it.

I think I might just bite the bullet, by a 25litre drum for myself and then if a few friends want some then they can but I'm not sure I'll bother with trying to offer a bulk purchase again.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Caravan is pretty well insulated, only keep it warm. Two inches of kingspan in the walls, four in the ceiling.
The biggest problem is keeping a constant heat. No matter how hot the fire gets at night it is still cold in the morning. Its not my leccy supply, so I don't want to go down that route, and I used over £100 worth of heating oil last year. I can put the thermal store together for not much more than that, and heat with a turk burner running on WMO.
It will be nice to get up in the morning and have it warm. Hate stepping out the shower when it 3C..............

i would guess your windows are single glazed maybe? as you loose loads of heat there...

i have sealed windows up in the winter with polythene, taped round
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 09:38:01 AM
Funny, being a filterer, I work the other way.

I filter and stockpile as much as I can in the winter because I know I can use it at any time of year and in the summer I only filter what I'm going to use straight away in case it goes lumpy if we get a cold snap.

I've also learn't to write the temperature that I filtered at on the containers.

i like you always watch the ambient temp and if filtered in hot weather try use it up...

but i filter half way (2x bed sheets + dewatered + settled 1 week + 50m with j cloth + 20m) and leave it in my tanks, so it still has 2 sets of filters to go through before out into car and can settle more.

 ;)

i got 160 ltrs of oil thats still settling after 2 years! backup oil

 8)
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 09:43:15 AM
Maybe you could re-launch your winteriser offer Julian. Now seems like a good time

As you found out Nige, it is a real pain in the backside for no real gain or, if you do try to make a gain, you get slated for it.

I think I might just bite the bullet, by a 25litre drum for myself and then if a few friends want some then they can but I'm not sure I'll bother with trying to offer a bulk purchase again.

is there much difference in the price jules?
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 22, 2013, 09:56:28 AM

is there much difference in the price jules?

Synergy prices as of today:
25lt-£189.95 + VAT +delivery
205lt-£1080 +VAT + delivery
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 22, 2013, 09:58:00 AM

As you found out Nige, it is a real pain in the backside for no real gain or, if you do try to make a gain, you get slated for it.


...aint that the truth!!
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 10:51:02 AM

is there much difference in the price jules?

Synergy prices as of today:
25lt-£189.95 + VAT +delivery
205lt-£1080 +VAT + delivery

my life yeah thats massive...
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: neisel on June 22, 2013, 10:59:06 AM
I'm determined to be ready, i.e. not making any BD during the winter, this year.

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1275.msg14450.html#msg14450
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Keef on June 22, 2013, 11:06:03 AM

but i filter half way (2x bed sheets + dewatered + settled 1 week + 50m with j cloth + 20m) and leave it in my tanks, so it still has 2 sets of filters to go through before out into car and can settle more.


I used to mess about like that but I was inspired by you and Knighty to try something simpler.

At the time you were taking great care filtering your oil through multiple filters etc but your car filters were still blocking after only a couple of thousand miles.

Meanwhile I found out that Knighty was gravity filtering through a bed sheet and straight into his van and not having any trouble with blocked filters on his van.

This made me think that maybe pump filtering isn't all it's cracked up to be and maybe even course gravity filtering is better than fine pumped filtering.

So for over a year now (approx 20,000 miles) I've been gravity filtering the oil through four thicknesses of bed sheets in one go and then using it. It works for me and my car filters don't get blocked any more than usual.

The only downsides for me are that it's slow in winter and the more fuel you need, the more barrels you have to set up, although I manage fine with four.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 22, 2013, 01:00:25 PM
That sounds like a good system you've got there Keef. Keeping it simple is the way forward with most of what we do as veggers and BDers. Too many try to over complicate methods and become unstuck and/or waste their time. Sometimes even to the point of thinking they have a better end product.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Julian on June 22, 2013, 02:23:09 PM

but i filter half way (2x bed sheets + dewatered + settled 1 week + 50m with j cloth + 20m) and leave it in my tanks, so it still has 2 sets of filters to go through before out into car and can settle more.


I used to mess about like that but I was inspired by you and Knighty to try something simpler.

At the time you were taking great care filtering your oil through multiple filters etc but your car filters were still blocking after only a couple of thousand miles.

Meanwhile I found out that Knighty was gravity filtering through a bed sheet and straight into his van and not having any trouble with blocked filters on his van.

This made me think that maybe pump filtering isn't all it's cracked up to be and maybe even course gravity filtering is better than fine pumped filtering.

So for over a year now (approx 20,000 miles) I've been gravity filtering the oil through four thicknesses of bed sheets in one go and then using it. It works for me and my car filters don't get blocked any more than usual.

The only downsides for me are that it's slow in winter and the more fuel you need, the more barrels you have to set up, although I manage fine with four.


How do you guys use the bed sheets ... stretched across the top of a drum?  If so have you considered making a sock filter?  Far greater filter area and dead easy to make with a sewing machine ... I do it with landscaping fabric for course filtering     http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Tips_and_wrinkles_1#Homemade_sock_filters
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: knighty on June 22, 2013, 02:53:03 PM
I folded the sheets in half... then got my mother to sow them up with her sowing machine...

turned them into giant socks.. used to get close to 200litres in each one - the limit was probably the drums they were in and not the sheets themselves

I had 4 drums on-top of a pallet, on top of an IBC and the drums drained down into the IBC through short lengths of hose...

then a pump / filler nozzle on the bottom of the IBC and straight into my tank

worked great... could filter 1000litres overnight in the summer, took maybe a week in the winter... and I hardly ever washed the sheets either


worked great.... thing I really liked about it was that there was naff all hands on time... used to take me maybe 15min to fill the sheets up... then that was it, walk away and forget it... 1000litres done :-)
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Julian on June 22, 2013, 03:09:36 PM
I folded the sheets in half... then got my mother to sow them up with her sowing machine...

turned them into giant socks.. used to get close to 200litres in each one - the limit was probably the drums they were in and not the sheets themselves

I had 4 drums on-top of a pallet, on top of an IBC and the drums drained down into the IBC through short lengths of hose...

then a pump / filler nozzle on the bottom of the IBC and straight into my tank

worked great... could filter 1000litres overnight in the summer, took maybe a week in the winter... and I hardly ever washed the sheets either


worked great.... thing I really liked about it was that there was naff all hands on time... used to take me maybe 15min to fill the sheets up... then that was it, walk away and forget it... 1000litres done :-)

Sounds very efficient, got any photos we can stick on the wiki ... the Veg section hasn't had any additions for quite some time.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Keef on June 22, 2013, 03:31:08 PM
No not stretched, more sort of draped. You want as large a capacity as you can get otherwise you spend all your time topping them up.

If you can get hold of king size duvet covers, they fold nicely to form about a 40 litre well in a 200litre barrel then you just fill up and walk away. Get four of them on the go and you can filter pretty quickly, until it all turns to frogspawn in the really cold weather!

I think knighty does one drum up high feeding into another beneath which means that if you can find big enough sheets, you can have nearly a 200 litre well.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 05:18:51 PM

but i filter half way (2x bed sheets + dewatered + settled 1 week + 50m with j cloth + 20m) and leave it in my tanks, so it still has 2 sets of filters to go through before out into car and can settle more.


I used to mess about like that but I was inspired by you and Knighty to try something simpler.

At the time you were taking great care filtering your oil through multiple filters etc but your car filters were still blocking after only a couple of thousand miles.

Meanwhile I found out that Knighty was gravity filtering through a bed sheet and straight into his van and not having any trouble with blocked filters on his van.

This made me think that maybe pump filtering isn't all it's cracked up to be and maybe even course gravity filtering is better than fine pumped filtering.

So for over a year now (approx 20,000 miles) I've been gravity filtering the oil through four thicknesses of bed sheets in one go and then using it. It works for me and my car filters don't get blocked any more than usual.

The only downsides for me are that it's slow in winter and the more fuel you need, the more barrels you have to set up, although I manage fine with four.

i very much hear you there and yes if it works dont knock it....

what car are you useing the oil in and how many miles do you get on a filter keef?

cant rember what nightys vehicles were?
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Keef on June 22, 2013, 07:49:31 PM
I'm running a Citroen Synergie with the turbo XUD.

I've only changed one filter in the last 12 months and that was because of some strange black stuff in the misfuel I was adding over winter.

In fact I bought three new filters when I started running Synergies three years ago and I've still got one left.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 07:59:44 PM
so miles to a filter would be? :)
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Keef on June 22, 2013, 08:13:01 PM
Dunno really, I've probably done about 60,000 miles in three different Synergies over 3 years and changed two fuel filters.

The first one needed a filter change a couple of thousand miles after I started putting veg in.

The second one had already been run on veg when I got it and only had one filter after the dodgy misfuel incident.

and the third one hasn't had a filter change yet. (but I've only had it a month and done 2,200 miles)

As you may have guessed, I don't repair cars much. If it dies, I just sell it and buy a replacement.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 08:47:47 PM
i dont keep the original filters of cars now,  somehow trying to get thick veg oil through a paper filter designed for very thin diesel cant be right in my thinking... so yeah blockages are gonna happen, i use sausage filters now something i think more in keeping with the viscosity of the liquid... and i dont change them ever, yet...

 8)
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 22, 2013, 09:18:24 PM
What's a sausage filter R.M.........got a link?
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 09:51:51 PM
What's a sausage filter R.M.........got a link?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LARGE-IN-LINE-DIESEL-BIO-VEG-VEGETABLE-FUEL-FILTER-8-10mm-x-1-/130878061253?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e78f0bac5

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/LARGE-IN-LINE-DIESEL-BIO-VEG-VEGETABLE-FUEL-FILTER-8-10mm-x-1-/23/!B8dQf!gCWk~$(KGrHqYOKpYEy+jCzKnEBM3FB)PTsw~~_12.JPG)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img706/9980/20130607203932.jpg)
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Keef on June 22, 2013, 10:00:58 PM
I try to filter the sausages out of my oil before I put it in the car ;D
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 22, 2013, 10:01:55 PM
out of a filter and then through a sausage filter..........which blocks first?
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 10:04:15 PM
out of a filter and then through a sausage filter..........which blocks first?

only the sausage filter, i diss-connect the original....

no blockage yet...
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 22, 2013, 10:05:51 PM
Anybody want something like that that's takeapartable at the BBB. I've got something similar that where the whole thing comes apart and the filter is washable.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 22, 2013, 10:09:54 PM
Anybody want something like that that's takeapartable at the BBB. I've got something similar that where the whole thing comes apart and the filter is washable.

 i got 2x aswell

dont use um

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/PETROL-DIESEL-INLINE-FUEL-FILTER-8MM-5-16-SIMPLE-TO-CLEAN-/00/s/MTQ4M1gxNjAw/$(KGrHqV,!oEFBgT+uC87BQrCetKpiw~~60_58.JPG)
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 22, 2013, 10:55:03 PM
Why?
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: knighty on June 22, 2013, 11:23:42 PM
Sounds very efficient, got any photos we can stick on the wiki ... the Veg section hasn't had any additions for quite some time.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11769#pid121216

that was early on.... no better photos unfortunately :-(
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: greasemonkey on June 23, 2013, 12:07:20 AM
I've got one of them chrome filters. They are really well made.
Currently running on a cheapo plastic inline filter. It aint blocked, so it can stay till it is.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 23, 2013, 09:13:12 AM
Why?

i find the sausage ones have alot more surface area for veg to go through easy, those chrome ones the filter part is very tiny, plus those sausage ones have been on many cars now with out a problem so far, and you can buy 5x for just over a tenner i think on e-blag/

i did buy to try them but as the others worked well didnt tchange to these. so just stuck in the shed...
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 23, 2013, 09:14:18 AM
I've got one of them chrome filters. They are really well made.
Currently running on a cheapo plastic inline filter. It aint blocked, so it can stay till it is.

paper one?
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: nigelb on June 23, 2013, 09:53:45 AM
Why?

i find the sausage ones have alot more surface area for veg to go through easy, those chrome ones the filter part is very tiny, plus those sausage ones have been on many cars now with out a problem so far, and you can buy 5x for just over a tenner i think on e-blag/


That makes a lot of sense. I can see the increase in surface area can be beneficial.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: greasemonkey on June 23, 2013, 12:03:46 PM
I've got one of them chrome filters. They are really well made.
Currently running on a cheapo plastic inline filter. It aint blocked, so it can stay till it is.

paper one?

No. The gauze on this one is plastic.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Tony on June 23, 2013, 05:34:56 PM
Anybody want something like that that's takeapartable at the BBB. I've got something similar that where the whole thing comes apart and the filter is washable.

 i got 2x aswell

dont use um

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/PETROL-DIESEL-INLINE-FUEL-FILTER-8MM-5-16-SIMPLE-TO-CLEAN-/00/s/MTQ4M1gxNjAw/$(KGrHqV,!oEFBgT+uC87BQrCetKpiw~~60_58.JPG)

Hmm.  I had one like that and it wasn't as advertised, hard to take apart and clean, and easy to either not seal properly or break in the process of tightening.  The little disposable ones are much better.
Title: Re: Are you thinking about winter yet?
Post by: Rotary-Motion on June 23, 2013, 10:27:33 PM
Anybody want something like that that's takeapartable at the BBB. I've got something similar that where the whole thing comes apart and the filter is washable.

 i got 2x aswell

dont use um

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/PETROL-DIESEL-INLINE-FUEL-FILTER-8MM-5-16-SIMPLE-TO-CLEAN-/00/s/MTQ4M1gxNjAw/$(KGrHqV,!oEFBgT+uC87BQrCetKpiw~~60_58.JPG)

Hmm.  I had one like that and it wasn't as advertised, hard to take apart and clean, and easy to either not seal properly or break in the process of tightening.  The little disposable ones are much better.

yes noticed that too, flimsy