Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum

General => Chatter => Topic started by: Oilybloke on March 27, 2013, 05:32:18 PM

Title: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Oilybloke on March 27, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
On the assurance that they had sold tanker loads of the stuff, I recently bought two IBCs of reclaimed meth. I have made three batches with it, and just can't seem to get a good clear pass. Oil is always thoroughly dried, and I two-stage with KOH. Using virgin meth, my second stage was normally around 10%, never any more than 25%. These last three have been 30 - 40% for the second stage, and still not going all the way.

I have tried a new bag of KOH too.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Julian on March 27, 2013, 05:49:08 PM
The logical thing would be to test the Methanol purity I'd guess.

Did the seller make any claims as to it's purity before you bought it?
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Oilybloke on March 27, 2013, 06:00:40 PM
They claim 97%+. Do I weigh it to test the purity?
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Julian on March 27, 2013, 06:25:19 PM
If I'd been a bit more diligent and finished the page it might have been a bit more useful but it may help.

Most accurate method is a hydrometer.  For accuracy the laboratory type.  They can be picked up on ebay for around £15.00 ish.

It's possible to weigh the methanol but you need to be very accurate with temperatures and volumes.
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: nigelb on March 27, 2013, 07:25:22 PM
They claim 97%+. Do I weigh it to test the purity?

This one of the worries I have regarding reclaimed. A claim is just a claim but did it come with a certificate of conformaty or analysis.

What does that 3% contain? I'll wager a barrel of virgin that's it's not just water.

I can only imagine Oily that the cost of these two IBC's were rather attractive.
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Oilybloke on March 27, 2013, 07:44:17 PM
They claim 97%+. Do I weigh it to test the purity?

This one of the worries I have regarding reclaimed. A claim is just a claim but did it come with a certificate of conformaty or analysis.

What does that 3% contain? I'll wager a barrel of virgin that's it's not just water.I too wondered about that 3%!

I can only imagine Oily that the cost of these two IBC's were rather attractive.Not far off the same price as I paid for virgin from them last time! And I did query the quality, but was assured by the sales bod that they had sold "450k litres to the biodiesel industry with no problems"
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: julesandtash on March 27, 2013, 08:51:30 PM
Have you tried using just a little bit more than usual.
If your process is very tight on methanol then that difference in purity could be stalling the conversion.

Of course, as Nige says, that 3% could be anything and could be affecting your process too
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Greenchef on March 27, 2013, 11:52:07 PM
I too was recently seduced by cheep reclaimed methanol, I think the problem is they do sell tanker loads of the stuff to commercial producers, but I just don't believe these producers have quite as high standards as we do!
I talked my problem through with their technical advisor, he told me to re do my titration! I explained that I didn't do that, I used the no titration  method, he told me that that's obviously the problem then!
I then explained the no titration method and the reduction in catalist requirement! The bloke did not have a clue what I was on about. Just shows what we are up against!
Have now spoken to two well known guys on hear who have I think pointed me in the right direction big thank you to Keith and Nigel.
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Oilybloke on April 03, 2013, 07:51:29 PM
My hydrometer arrived today (would you believe that no-one stocks them over here?!) and warmed the meth to 20c. Plopped the hydrometer into the sample, and it just sank straight to the bottom! It's a brewer's/winemaker's one, have I fkd up?

So I decided to weigh a sample. Given that a litre should weigh 794g, my 100ml sample weighed 84g but over a 15 minute period went down to 80g. I did this twice, with the same result.

Answers on a postcard please......
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Jamesrl on April 03, 2013, 09:22:24 PM
My hydrometer arrived today (would you believe that no-one stocks them over here?!) and warmed the meth to 20c. Plopped the hydrometer into the sample, and it just sank straight to the bottom! It's a brewer's/winemaker's one, have I fkd up?

So I decided to weigh a sample. Given that a litre should weigh 794g, my 100ml sample weighed 84g but over a 15 minute period went down to 80g. I did this twice, with the same result.

Answers on a postcard please......

You need a Trallies Hydrometer, for spirits.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spirit-Hydrometer-Measures-abv-of-spirit-alcohol-Simple-to-use-0-100-New-/221200467939?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Food_SM&hash=item33809347e3

Did you read the meniscus correctly and was the methanol and measuring cylinder at the temperature it's calibrated at, all these things will give a false result if not adhered to. 
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: nigelb on April 03, 2013, 09:27:20 PM

Did you read the meniscus correctly and was the methanol and measuring cylinder at the temperature it's calibrated at, all these things will give a false result if not adhered to.

Jim...he couldn't read the meniscus if he wanted to. He says it sank straight to the bottom.
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Jamesrl on April 03, 2013, 09:30:40 PM

Did you read the meniscus correctly and was the methanol and measuring cylinder at the temperature it's calibrated at, all these things will give a false result if not adhered to.

Jim...he couldn't read the meniscus if he wanted to. He says it sank straight to the bottom.

I was referring to the meniscus on the measuring cylinder when weighing the meth y'narna
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: nigelb on April 03, 2013, 09:32:41 PM
Well you didn't bleedin' say that did ya you old git
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Jamesrl on April 03, 2013, 09:47:40 PM
Well you didn't bleedin' say that did ya you old git

Oh yes I did, y'blind bugger, read it again, if you don't understand ask, you'll neva lern nuffin' if'n y'don't ask y'silly boy.
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: nigelb on April 03, 2013, 09:51:39 PM
Then perhaps you need to write a little clearer.  :o

...might save a bit of confusion for some of us
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: K.H on April 03, 2013, 09:55:59 PM
This is better than TV  :)
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Jamesrl on April 03, 2013, 10:02:14 PM
Then perhaps you need to write a little clearer.  :o



Perhaps you should go to specsavers, it'd be clearer then, he of restricted vision. ha ha ha la la la.
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: nigelb on April 03, 2013, 10:02:53 PM
This is better than TV  :)

...anything is better than TV!
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Jamesrl on April 03, 2013, 10:03:46 PM
This is better than TV  :)

Isn't it, he's an argumentative old sod in'e.
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Oilybloke on April 04, 2013, 06:51:16 AM
I knew what you meant, Jim.
Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: mon on April 04, 2013, 01:05:31 PM
My hydrometer arrived today (would you believe that no-one stocks them over here?!) and warmed the meth to 20c. Plopped the hydrometer into the sample, and it just sank straight to the bottom! It's a brewer's/winemaker's one, have I fkd up?

So I decided to weigh a sample. Given that a litre should weigh 794g, my 100ml sample weighed 84g but over a 15 minute period went down to 80g. I did this twice, with the same result.

Answers on a postcard please......


The hydrometer you have will only measure upto 100% ethanol.

Ethanol = 789 g at 20°C
Methanol = 794g at 20°C

so your sample weighs less than this, http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Testing_methanol_purity (http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Testing_methanol_purity)
Worst case
794g at 20 degrees is atleast 98.5% pure.

Title: Re: Reclaimed meth.
Post by: Tony on April 04, 2013, 02:28:53 PM
My hydrometer arrived today (would you believe that no-one stocks them over here?!) and warmed the meth to 20c. Plopped the hydrometer into the sample, and it just sank straight to the bottom! It's a brewer's/winemaker's one, have I fkd up?

So I decided to weigh a sample. Given that a litre should weigh 794g, my 100ml sample weighed 84g but over a 15 minute period went down to 80g. I did this twice, with the same result.

Answers on a postcard please......

Sounds like the battery in your scales needs replacing if it changes over time.

The hydrometer sinking suggests it's pure enough to me.  Mine is an alcohol hydrometer and if it sinks, I know it's good to re-use.

I did some tests with fresh Meth (not reclaimed) and it sank in that, but if I added 1ml of water to the 100ml sample then the hydrometer would rise.