Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: neisel on March 19, 2013, 10:56:19 PM
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Today while making a 145 batch my pump stopped & now won't pump.
I had heated the oil to 60 & introduced 20 litres of quite thick but pourable glyc (made from KOH & methanol) from my last batch. The pump slowed right down so I dropped about 10 litres of mostly unmixed glyc from the bottom of my processor with about 10 litres of hot oil & mixed it in a cubie, then re-introduced about half of that back into the top of the machine.
I was a bit surprised that the pump again slowed as this was ½ glyc, ½ hot oil & almost immediately the fuse on the plug of the 3 plug extension I use to bring power from the house to the shed at the bottom of the garden blew & everything - heat, light pump - shut down.
Changed the 13 amp fuse in the plug in the house & heat & light came back on but now the bloody pump still isn't working.
I can hear a sort of soft click when I plug in the pump but no pumping.
Any ideas what's happened or how to fix it?
TIA.
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Er! wtf is a GR120 pump.
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It's actually a GR125, not a 120.
http://www.goldenray.co.uk/processors.html
HTH.
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Bottom of the garden ... how long and what size is the extension lead?
Long lead, heater, pump, lights, sounds like you may be pushing the boundaries a little for a 13amp socket.
Has the glycerine solidified in the pump casing?
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GR125 must just be the name that the GoldenRay company assigns them. It's a standard vane pump by another name.
Vane pumps are noisy little beggers. If you look in the back of the pump (the fan end) their should be a slot in the end of the driveshaft. See if it turns freely with a screwdriver. If not, it's take-apart time to find out why not.
If it has been stalled and run too long though, you may have overheated the motor windings - in which case it's new pump time.
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I've made about 2000 litres with the same extension cord & set up. Never had an issue with it before. I do not believe the extension cord has anything to do with this.
The fuse on it blew, perhaps caused by the pump working too hard to move thick glyc?
The glyc has never solidified even when stored outside in freezing temps and was being pumped, albeit slowly.
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Is our cable at least 2.5mm^2, if not you could be getting a voltage drop.
A voltage drop will cause the windings to overheat and eventually cause an insulation breakdown and pump failure.
Would I be right in assuming the pump is a TAM105 or similar?
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Is our cable at least 2.5mm^2, if not you could be getting a voltage drop.
A voltage drop will cause the windings to overheat and eventually cause an insulation breakdown and pump failure.
Would I be right in assuming the pump is a TAM105 or similar?
Nah the GoldenRays use a vane pump, presumably because they're self priming for filling purposes. But boy are they noisy!
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This is the label on the extension cord.
Dunno what kind of pump it is. Unfortunately, the machine is quite close up against a wall so I can't see it.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/24czbza.jpg)
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Well that looks OK. I used my plant at the end of a 25m extension lead for over a year. Voltage did at times drop to just 200V, but no harm done.
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Anyone know if the extra effort of pumping thick glyc would bugger something up in the pump?
I can hear it humming faintly but it's not pumping.
Do they have a "reset" switch?
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No, it sounds like it is stalled. You should dismantle the pump end and clean it out (be careful not to lose the vanes, they can fall out of the impeller body).
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Sorry to be thick, but does that require draining the processor & removing the pump from it or can I isolate the pump & do it in situ?
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Depends on your plumbing - does the pump have valves that allow it to be isolated?
I think with those pumps you can take the front cover off without removing the pump from the kit?
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Yes, it has valves either side of the pump.
I'll drain it, move it & have better look.
Slightly OT, I'd prepared the KOH + methanol mix in anticipation of processing as normal. It'll now sit until I sort this out. Will it still be usable?
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Yes so long as it's in an airtight container.
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Today I emptied & moved the machine. Took the plate off the pump & found a couple of loose but still connected wires. Screwing them down made no difference.
Off to the local electrical / pump guy with the capacitor. "A bit low" was the verdict & prolly not the reason no pumpy. Reason likely to be fried motor. Suggested I bring it in for a free evaluation & estimate.
Forgot to mention on here, I get a mild electrical shock from the pump plug when there is no power going to the processor, as in everything is unplugged. WTF is that?
Bit of a pisser on the pump as it's less than 1 y.o. If it does need a pump rebuild is it a DIY project or specialist job?
Anyone know of a good, cheap rebuilder on here or VOD?
TIA.
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Most modern pumps are not economical to repare, a rewind is normally twice the cost of a new one.
You may be able to fit a differant pump depending on the setup of the pipework and how much messing about you want to do.
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Probably a better bet to plumb in a new pump, JGS600 on here sells them
Is the pump not still under warranty, if less than 1 year old
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I'm taking the pump off this a.m. to have a look.
Any theories as to why I'd be getting an electrical shock from the plug prongs when everything is disconnected from power?
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That might be the start capacitor, though usually they are permanently wired so would discharge through the windings.
It sounds like you've taken the electrical cover off the pump but not the pump head end (the bit that does the fluid movement). This should be dismantled to check for blockages, and this is the place you have to be careful not to lose the little pump vanes.
If it's the pump I think it is (got any photos?) then it'll look like this inside:
(http://hetacfluidpower.com/images/screen_shots/vane.jpg)
The little vanes get flung out by centrifugal force, they just sit freely in the slots.
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The pump is at the pump guy for diagnosis, didn't think to take piccies.
It's a Marinox model Diamond 50 & doesn't have removable vanes. I'll get it back tomoz & will update the thread then.
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Pumpman has said it's dead & not worth fixing. Got too hot & burnt the motor out. He said it's Chinese even though the label says Italy. I know SFA about pumps so don't know whether he's talking out of his rear end or not.
He can't tell me what a new one would cost as my label "doesn't have the SP number" which includes the magic code.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2urqiht.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2w5r50n.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/11h8bwm.jpg)
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neisel,
Don't mess about looking for a pump, go straight to jgs600 (Glenn) and get one of his 50ltr pumps.
They come with Viton seals as standard AND they have a 1hp motor, proper pump.
Try this link biopumps.co.uk (http://biopumps.co.uk)
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Pumpman has said it's dead & not worth fixing. Got too hot & burnt the motor out. He said it's Chinese even though the label says Italy. I know SFA about pumps so don't know whether he's talking out of his rear end or not.
He can't tell me what a new one would cost as my label "doesn't have the SP number" which includes the magic code.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2urqiht.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2w5r50n.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/11h8bwm.jpg)
Well it is not a self priming vane pump anyway. With that type of pump I cannot see your thick ish mixture being the cause of your pump failure. I do however think it is voltage related. Lights, 3Kw heater and pump is over the top for a 13amp ext lead and with the voltage drop It would over heat quite quickly.
Edited to add I would also recommend Glenns pumps.
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that looks like one of my 36lpm italian pumps i got in about a year ago. sold abou 20 of them..they were over priced and to be honest the italians were a pain to deal with.. ive had 1 come back with a loose impeller but nothing else so far....
yes these deffo cam from italy, cost twice as much as my 50 lpm pumps ...!!!
ive got one of these sitting here in my office at the moment that for some reason pumps backwards.... it works ok though. missing its brass impeller as another member wanted it... free to anyone if they want to pay the postage costs..
£9 would cover it..!!
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Glenn,
Would the impeller on my dead pump work on your impellerless pump?
If yes I'll have that from you.
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Well that looks much the same as a TAM105 to me.
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Just to update this thread.....
I bought a 50lpm pump from Glenn (JGS600) & he kindly threw in the backward running Italian pump without the impeller he mentions above. Went to fit my new 50lpm pump on Friday only to discover because it's bigger than the pump which came off that my connections / hoses now don't reach. New hose on the way from Nathan so I should be up & running in a couple of days.
While the machine is in pieces I decided to remove the water washing controls as I'm now acid washing & I also want to glue some additional insulation to all outside surfaces. I've got three sleeping bag mats which, with the hot water tank jacket I've been using, should do a fantastic job at retaining heat.
Just one question, what glue would work with the temperatures encountered in BD processing?
TIA
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Bio seems to eat most glues, I ended up wiring the bottom layers then using silver foil tape on the top layer
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Tiger seal will go to high temps, although the bio will probably eat it eventually. Only trouble is , once you have opened the tube, it tends to go off, no matter how well you seal the end, and its not cheap.
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I've insulated quite a few reactors with camping mats but never used glue of any kind.
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Go on, give me a clue.
How did you stop them falling off?
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With a round tank it's easy, you can use tape or gardening wire.
But a Goldenray has flat sides, so why not use some celotex board as flexable mat isn't going to be easy to keep flat on the sides.