Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: julianf on March 19, 2013, 01:21:37 AM
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im about to go to bed after another frustrating venturi battle...
id like to buy a couple for my new twin-pump reactor build. i would rather buy 'off the shelf' - im thinking not everyone's venturi here can be made by jim or nigel, so what are the other options?
thanks,
julian
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There might well be, although I haven't looked that hard.
Industry tends to use ejectors rather than venturis, so a google of 'Ejector' might turn up what you're looking for.
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There is a guy on the VOD forum selling plastic jobs.......
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I'd be extremely dubious about pumping 90c bio through anything plastic, the consequences of it's failure don't bear thinking about. Best stick with Jim or Nige jobs!
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It's either Uberveg or Jgs600 selling them, I can't remember which, huntsman40 has a vid of them in action, the ones they have are only suited to tam like pumps I believe
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sorry not me im afraid... only pumps :D
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edwards-stainless-steel-water-tap-fitting-vacuum-aspirator-venturi-/230948444732?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item35c5999a3c
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Edwards-stainless-steel-water-tap-fitting-vacuum-aspirator-venturi-/00/s/MTYwMFg5MjE=/z/ZJQAAOxyQj9RRiUD/$T2eC16N,!)sE9swmYk92BRRiUCnFyw~~60_12.JPG)
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edwards-stainless-steel-water-tap-fitting-vacuum-aspirator-venturi-/230948444732?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item35c5999a3c
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Edwards-stainless-steel-water-tap-fitting-vacuum-aspirator-venturi-/00/s/MTYwMFg5MjE=/z/ZJQAAOxyQj9RRiUD/$T2eC16N,!)sE9swmYk92BRRiUCnFyw~~60_12.JPG)
That's what industry would call an ejector. You can tell 'cos the vacuum port is before the throat.
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im thinking not everyone's venturi here can be made by jim or nigel, so what are the other options?
thanks,
julian
The proper ones are, You pay's y'money y'takes y'choice.
Don't spoil the ship for a ha'p'th of Tar.
BTW I've replaced quite a few of the Blue Plastic Venturis for our friends in the USA.
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I think Uberveg is selling eductors, not venturis.
Ill keep an eye on the ebay one, thank you frog man.
Jim, i have one of your units - if i try something else and its not better, then ill come back to you for another one.
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I think Uberveg is selling eductors, not venturis.
Ill keep an eye on the ebay one, thank you frog man.
Jim, i have one of your units - if i try something else and its not better, then ill come back to you for another one.
Does that mean you hope or think another one will be better ?
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Yes.
Given that I've changed the set-up and changed the pump running it, both with very minimal improvements, the next sensible thing would be to change the venturi.
It has never even approached the claims being made on VOD around its build time, however that may be due to other factors. The only way i can be sure is to swap in another unit for comparison.
I know Jim has made loads of bits for loads of people, and my unhappiness with this units performance may well be misplaced (hence me trying not to mention it above! : )
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As stated in previous correspondence Julian.....one of my units will not perform any better than one of Jims. All internal angles are the same so they'll generate the same suction from your system. However, that may only be true on a standard single port venturi.
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There's also the positioning of and what is fitted post venturi that have effects on efficiency.
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There's also the positioning of and what is fitted post venturi that have effects on efficiency.
...indeed!
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I'm going to put my venturi inside an actual stuffed squirrel just to confuse everyone about the naming convention.
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Just out of interest, what pump are you running, what pipe size and where is the venturi located? Also how good is the pipe work flow after the venturi? Maybe a picture would be nice. I understand that you have probably been through all this before but the venturi design is well proven so I am curious why you are having problems.
Just thought what size suction port are you using and how far are you lifting?
I have seen massive differences in venturi performance with simple pipework changes on our venturies on our crop sprayer systems, and to be fair they are technically piss poor venturies but we get away with it because of the big flow and pressure we have available on the pumps.
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I have one of Jims and am very peased with it.
It is formed within a piece of threaded 1" steel pipe with 1/2" suction port - all BSP threaded.
With an 82lpm pump, 1" pipework throughout and slow bends, it sucks like mad.
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Jim do you do multiport 1" steel venturis, IE like that nice copper one you showed us at the BBB, but in steel? Sized for 80lpm?
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Jim do you do multiport 1" steel venturis, IE like that nice copper one you showed us at the BBB, but in steel? Sized for 80lpm?
That nice copper one is mine, it's mine I tell ya.
Woks very well on my 110lpm pump, sucks in a liter in around two seconds.
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Just to be clear -
a) i'm not saying Jim's venturis are pants
(im aware lots of people use them, and have better results than me)
b) ive tried reconfiguring the pipework
c) ive tried a different pump (i forget what model number it is, but its one of the small grundfoss multistagers - it does not have much higher lpm than a tam [about 10 more from memory?] but its curve is preferable)
however, ive had constant poor performance (compared to what i hear), and, given that ive changed at least some of the other variables, id like to change the venturi.
ive asked about pumps and pipework before, done as advised, and seen no huge benefit - i think its sensible to change the venturi before going any further to "eliminate it from my enquires" : )
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Would you humour me and post a picture?
My venturi was ok most of the time but could be tempermental so I made a hopper to pour the meth in at about the same height as the venturi, this way it wil almost gravity feed but with the pump running and the valve open it takes 25l in no time and is 100% reliable.
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Julian...does the venturi you have cavitate when in operation?
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Jim do you do multiport 1" steel venturis, IE like that nice copper one you showed us at the BBB, but in steel? Sized for 80lpm?
Yes, I've just finished a couple to suit jgs600's 110ltr/min pumps, each venturi has 5 x 6.5mm suction holes around the throat.
An 80ltr venturi would have 4 holes. Unless you want a supa dupa model which has a totally different construction.
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Jim do you do multiport 1" steel venturis, IE like that nice copper one you showed us at the BBB, but in steel? Sized for 80lpm?
Yes, I've just finished a couple to suit jgs600's 110ltr/min pumps, each venturi has 5 x 6.5mm suction holes around the throat.
An 80ltr venturi would have 4 holes. Unless you want a supa dupa model which has a totally different construction.
Ah does that mean ours are not supa dupa models ?
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Uberveg on the VOD sells eductors.
The eductors stand up well to high temperature. uberveg has used his for 2 years and he heats to 90.
I ran mine up to 105 and yet the eductor still looks good as new.
and yes there suited to tam 105 (40lpm) pumps.
on the venturi side of things, there are lots of plastic ones on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-3-4-Inch-Venturi-Injector-Ozone-Mixer-Hot-Tub-SPA-/220734741618?pt=UK_Swimming_Pools_Hot_Tubs&hash=item3364d0dc72
(not my item) but how long would it last with hot bio?
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on the venturi side of things, there are lots of plastic ones on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-3-4-Inch-Venturi-Injector-Ozone-Mixer-Hot-Tub-SPA-/220734741618?pt=UK_Swimming_Pools_Hot_Tubs&hash=item3364d0dc72
(not my item) but how long would it last with hot bio?
Not long, played with one, *****ed it!
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Ah does that mean ours are not supa dupa models ?
Nah sorry, they're merely master pieces of the venturi art, supa dupa and supa dupa dupa versions are for very specific plants.......................................Mine.
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how did it break? did the bio eat through
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how did it break? did the bio eat through
Went sticky then cracked
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Ah does that mean ours are not supa dupa models ?
Nah sorry, they're merely master pieces of the venturi art, supa dupa and supa dupa dupa versions are for very specific plants.......................................Mine.
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/Avatars/ds50c05fe1_zpsb7d0cfed.gif)
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how did it break? did the bio eat through
Went sticky then cracked
They ALL crack in our aplication.
BTW there's absolutely no need for Bullsh!t Amplification in my case, it can be seen from space.
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Would you happen to know what material it was made of?
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Sorry I can't remember but the make was something like mazzuri?
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Hi, I've just imported a Venturi sample like the one on ebay. It's made from pvdf, rated to above 150c and claimed to be bio compatible.
I'm going to supply this as a new product line, if anyone wants to try the sample for a reduced price then give me a shout. Should also have some larger eductors for 100+ litre pumps within a few weeks.
Cheers,
James
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welcome uberveg
:)
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Hi, thanks for the welcome. Very relaxing forum
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We talk in hushed whispers on here. Even Jim's trumpet is muted.
Welcome btw. :)
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We talk in hushed whispers on here. Even Jim's trumpet is muted.
Welcome btw. :)
I have sufficient knowledge and experience of Plastic Venturis not to go down that road, I've said on many occasions what happens to them, no need for the trumpet.
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We talk in hushed whispers on here. Even Jim's trumpet is muted.
Welcome btw. :)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nFAGnx0hN1U/TRNYEtlC44I/AAAAAAAAB04/_WpNacNhyPQ/s1600/shh.jpeg)
Edit: One for Keith ;)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2XcP4ygr-7A7wUXHYfLFQElXHP2XGerdaQiMdDCvTOtF7ddjo)
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We talk in hushed whispers on here. Even Jim's trumpet is muted.
Welcome btw. :)
I have sufficient knowledge and experience of Plastic Venturis not to go down that road, I've said on many occasions what happens to them, no need for the trumpet.
James - You probably have experience of ventruis made from ABS - these melt in Bio and are manufactured by Mazzei. The ones I have sourced are PVDF (polyvinylidene flouride) and are completely impervious to Biodiesel and methoxide, boasting high tensile strength and rated to above 150 centrigrade.
Check the vacuum experiment I did in the lab http://youtu.be/vE-eH8mbwKA
Not bad, eh?
James
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I have sufficient knowledge and experience of Plastic Venturis not to go down that road, I've said on many occasions what happens to them, no need for the trumpet.
But, you were wrong about the plastic eductors. They are made of polypropylene and biodiesel seems to have no ill effect whatsoever. Plastics are moving on!
i like the video :)
What flow and pressure do you think is available from the mains?
we use PVDF tubing at work for fuel tank harnesses, MOD stuff
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But, you were wrong about the plastic eductors.
Is that right, How many broken, damaged, deformed and disintegrated PLASTIC eductors have you replaced?
One problem with the ones for sale atm is they don't comply with the dimensions that R&D both here and in the USA developed for WVO conversion, NOT water.
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Check the vacuum experiment I did in the lab http://youtu.be/vE-eH8mbwKA
Not bad, eh?
James
What's 10 ATM?
BTW using cold mains flow means NOTHING, there's absolutely no comparison with wvo at 40 - 50°C and a 40ltr min pump.
What's the mix ratio, liters of motive flow to liters of methoxide.
What pump flow rate is the venturi tuned to and don't just refer to the manufacturer's chart 'cause it won't be right in our application.
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Wow. Lets have a cooling off period. ???
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But, you were wrong about the plastic eductors. They are made of polypropylene and biodiesel seems to have no ill effect whatsoever. Plastics are moving on!
We've experimented with polypropylene pump impellers before - the results weren't good:
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,342.0.html
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The ones I have sourced are PVDF (polyvinylidene flouride) and are completely impervious to Biodiesel and methoxide, boasting high tensile strength and rated to above 150 centrigrade.
That's interesting - not encountered this material before. What is the longest life part you know of in use on a processor?
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dimensions that R&D both here and in the USA developed for WVO conversion, NOT water.
Got a link for this Jim? I'd be interested in reading it.
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dimensions that R&D both here and in the USA developed for WVO conversion, NOT water.
Got a link for this Jim? I'd be interested in reading it.
Unfortunately we never published details of our findings as such, apart from the drawings on the VOD.
Rick datech did the bulk of the work in the USA for their Appleseed , I used his findings as a base and moved it forward for our Copper Tank GL plants.
There's a huge difference between the Appleseed and our copper tanks, this allows us to use a far superior version of the eductor.
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Strange - I thought this thread was about Vacuum Venturi not Eductors? :P
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Rather than just going on and on about things, is it not possible to just stick a vacuum gauge on the inlet with liquid oil at a known temperature, and with a tam105 (for want of a better standard)?
What i mean is to make things quantitative?
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After having had a pump seal go and spew 70 + litres across the garage in a very short time I for one would not use anything other than copper or steel/iron on my processor pipework.
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Strange - I thought this thread was about Vacuum Venturi not Eductors? :P
Sorry, got meself confused a bit, all the venturi info is on the infopop site, right back to day one of my venturi developement.
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Strange - I thought this thread was about Vacuum Venturi not Eductors? :P
Sorry, got meself confused a bit, all the venturi info is on the infopop site, right back to day one of my venturi developement.
Jim, is there any information therein that would augment what we have on the wiki?
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Jim, is there any information therein that would augment what we have on the wiki?
I doubt it, just a load of ramblings about performance as the design developed.
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Sorry, got meself confused a bit, all the venturi info is on the infopop site, right back to day one of my venturi developement.
Got a link to that thread Jim?
Would like to have a ramble through it :)