Biopowered - vegetable oil and biodiesel forum
Biodiesel => Biodiesel equipment => Topic started by: Bio Dervotee on January 12, 2011, 12:34:25 AM
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Hi folks, got a heat exchanger [ fphe] from a combi boiler, if anyone wants it let me know, could possibly sort out pics, all I ask is refund postage.
have to say that I think this is the best site I have came across.and thats why I signed up
Cheers folks
Will
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Hiya Will, I've been after one to use as a still head heat exchanger - does it have threaded ports? (I bought one on eBay but alas only one port I could attach plumbing fittings to!)
Glad you like the site, Julian in particular has worked astonishingly hard at it - normally we don't get much feedback so this may well spur us into more action :)
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Will, hi and welcome!
Thanks for the kind words, as Tony says, it's most gratifying.
You have the dubious pleasure of being the first member to post who hasn't, as far as we know, originated from the vegetablediesel forum! How did you find the wiki, we don't yet feature heavily on Google?
If you would like to contribute to the wiki, you'd be most welcome. There's a page on getting started here http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Creating_pages and a list of "wanted pages" here http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Special:WantedPages Even proof reading and editing what we've done to date would be a great help ... I for one have abysmal smelling.
I'm all sorted for FPHEs at the moment but thanks for the offer.
Tony, I did this with one unit I had ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/FPHE2.jpg)
The fittings are 15mm, straight, end feed tap connectors with the nuts sawn off. The formed flange is just a nice fit to silver solder in place.
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Ah, if I tried that I'd just unsolder the whole lot ;D
Mine has one male threaded port and three male spigots that look like they lock into other fittings in the boiler.
I did manage to aquire a scrapped boiler for dismantling but that had a coil-in-can style style heat exchanger.
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Hi Tony, the heat exchanger I have has O ring seals but it could be modified, if its any good to you then E mail
your address to me and I will send it to you. Its in the workshop I,ll dig it out today, cheers Will
to Julian,
Hi Julian, I found the site when I was looking for an alternative method of titration, my ph meter just wont give consistent readings, so searched for titration using turmeric and your site was one that came up. I will try to post some pics of my home built processor if I can transfer them from my phone, my processor is open topped but starting next week my brother is going to make a cone bottomed 200 litre drum with a clip on lid,
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Ah if it's not threaded then probably the same as the one I've got - I'll have to look into modifying mine. Thanks for the offer though!
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Hi folks, the unit I have is the same one as in Julians photo, have to say Julian, nice work, looks good, if anyone wants it then give me a shout, otherwise I might try what Julian done and try some twin tanking on my mates transit.
cheers folks
Will
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i got one of those like in the picture!
and one of these too! be ok for rubber pipes http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=21469
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Welcome Bio Dervotee,
as you found PH meters don't work with oil, hope you found the turmeric titration page easy to understand? any feedback, suggestions, criticism to help to make it easier for the next person who reads it?
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Will ...
You really need a top on that processor as soon as possible! Can you use the lid from the new one or even a bit of plywood siliconed in place? Don't forget to put a vent in it, a fitting with a lump of hose running to outside would suffice until your new processor is built.
Tony ...
If you can get the bits to me, I'll happily silver solder it up for you.
Re FPHE ...
From what everyone describes, none are like the one I have. Mine had no spigots or connections, it just had holes. The tap connectors simply sat over the holes and were silver soldered. Seems to be OK as I pressure tested it to 50 psi ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/FPHE3.jpg)
Same idea should work with the spigots everyone is describing.
Also on the subject of FPHEs the couple I had, ex local plumber, were very badly scaled / sludged up. Drying them out completely allowed the black sludge to harden and fall out in flakes. But for the limescale I recently found that Sulphuric acid works. I'd read some where that Sulphuric was not good for descaling but I recently tried a very heavily scaled ballcock in my mild Sulphuric bath and it worked a treat. So again if anyone wants FPHEs descaled if you can get them to me they can quite happily sit in the acid bath for a week or so.
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I'll take you up on that kind offer Julian. :)
I'll take the FPHE to a local plumbing place and see what they've got that would fit.
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No problem, brass fittings would be suitable too. What's the OD and ID of the spigots?
EDIT ... Don't worry about the dimensions, I've just realised I probably got one similar. See below.
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In fact if it's from a Vaillant similar to the one Paul posted, don't buy fittings. I can drill out the spigots to make 15mm sockets which will take the pipe directly ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/FPHE drilled for15mm.jpg)
Just let me know how long you want the pipes.
Ooooh ... I feel another wiki page coming on for the benefit of the veg community!
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Ive got two the same as yours Julian,just holes,ive used the industrial glue that Spock recommended to glue in some brass hosetails in one,held pressure ok only trouble is ive got no use for them.
My brother in law/plumber wrapped the last one up and gave it to me on xmas day-tight git!
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I'd have been over the moon to get a FPHE in place of some of the rubbish I get given at Christmas. It's always well intentioned from kind family members, but most of it is totally useless stuff you never use but don't have the heart to throw out "cos so and so gave it to you".
Example .... I've had a beard for over well over 30 years, and have known my sister in law for the last 25. A few years back she gave me a bottle of pre-electric shave lotion for Christmas!
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Missus answered the door to him the other day,he was dropping off some piezo igniters from scrapped boilers,only trouble was he was holding the wire against the door handle and pressing the button when she opened it ;D
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Besides being a bit of a joker, he sounds like an excellent source of supply for bits that "might be useful one day".
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(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/Cubieheater007.jpg)
Theres got to be some use for this heat exchanger but god knows what
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You posted that before didn't you? Couldn't think of a use of a use then and still can't, but it must be worth 20-30 quid scrap!
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Hi folks, processor will be ok for another couple of batches,[ about 75litres a batch], its a gas bottle with the bottom cut off and legs welded on top, then inverted, top has 1 inch bsp hole which is now bottom drain. Anyway when new processor is ready then old one becomes dewatering tank. intend to go with twin tank/gl setup with interlocks and remote control using 12volt car relays.
I would be happy to help with the site but right now I am unable to get much free time as my missus has been in hospital since 1st jan and is not very well, at least she didn`t get me after shave for xmas, unlike several years ago. got 2 bottles, worse still, 1 was from my mum!!! ::) ::)
Fphe is exact same as Julians, 7 interleaved fingers, chevron design on top etc. still there if anyone wants it.
haven`t tried turmeric titration yet, it seems to be pretty straightforward, will let you know how it goes, ph meter would not give consistent readings.
It has been so cold up here that even good oil is like treacle.
cheers folks, speak to you`s soon
Will
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Hope your missus gets better soon Will.
And yes, it's not much fun making bio in the cold!
Julian, I'm not sure I should trust a man with a beard with my FPHE, but the offer is too good to turn down. ;D Shall I post it with some lengths of 15mm pipe?
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Will ...
Likewise, I wish your better half a speedy recovery. If you would like 15 mm tails (or hose tails, if you supply them, or I could make the tails if you supply the lumps of brass) added to your HE, let me know.
Tony ...
Just the HE will be fine, I've got copper tube coming out of my ears, let me know the dimension from the face of the HE to the ends of the pipes (shorter will make return postage easer). I'll try sticking it in the acid bath for a few days to clean it out so it will probably come back copper plated ... it's a very well used acid bath!
I'll PM my address.
PS stick to Pumpophilia rather than Pogonophobia.
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I'm just highly amused that there is a word for fear of beards ;D
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Hello folk`s,, just got another FPHE . definitely now going to go twin tank and see how it goes. have run other people`s transits on svo but there is a problem there and we won`t mention anything else :-X
have also found a barometric pressure sensor in the bits that came to me. looks the same as washing machine sensor. I will try to see what pressure it switches at and let you all know, combi boilers are a great source for parts but the bits I got are all mostly plastic connections with o ring fittings. this was dated 2004
even the pump was plastic
cheers folk`s
Will
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Im going to melt two FPHE tomorrow (sorry i mean silver solder some fittings on) i will see if i can follow Julians advice and ive got my camera ready
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I'd be interested in the outcome - I really should post mine off to Julian, as I keep thinking that rather than a SHHE, it would be very interesting to experiment using it as a condenser in place of the traditional plumbers delight.
I don't know of anyone that's tried this though it has been discussed on the forum before - I'd like to give it a whirl with Julian's help.
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Hi folk`s, still got 2 fphe`s, thinkin about using one of them in the area where oil tank will be boxed in to help oil flow better, goin to use --- guess what, aye, another gas bottle, 110 litre , that`s Glasgow to London with a transit and run bio in normal tank just in case of any problems. Also just got 2 boxes of brand new heater plugs so might try in line heating.
Anyway this will be happening in next week or two, will let you know how it goes, cheers,
Will
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Tony ...
Great minds ... if you remember the thread, I've got a commercial, multitube unit as a SHHE. It only knocks about 10°C off the vapour temperature entering the plumbers delight and adds about the same to the returning air.
I've been toying with the idea of running the vapour outlet from the PD direct back to the venturi, running water through SHHE and chilled water from the beer chiller through the PD. With the current set up the vapour leaving the PD is within 1 or 2 degrees of the cooling water. As I can now get the chiller down to -8°C, it would be interesting to see if that speeded up demething. Don't think water freezing would be a problem as it's miscible with Methanol.
Ready when you are for the FPHE.
I've got a feeling someone does already use a FPHE, not sure who and not sure if it's as a PD or a SHHE. From the little playing I've done with FPHEs I suspect that they may suffer from a build up of liquid between the plates which may reduce the efficiency. Fill it with water and then try and get it out. It's almost impossible, even blowing it through with an air line. Just wondering if the vapour will find a narrow path through the plates with the rest of the space filled with Methanol, thus reducing the contact area. No hard facts, just a gut feeling. There's really only one way to find out!
Will ...
Sounds interesting, keep us posted and don't forget to take photos of any mods for the wiki.
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110l - whew, that's a fair sized gas bottle.
A couple of years ago I did ponder getting someone to weld a couple of big gas cylinders end to end to make a processor - however I suspect most people would be unwilling to do such a thing for me ;D
Julian, interesting - I was wondering about trapped liquid. My thought was that the first litre from demething should be discarded.
It's that or not dewater with the condenser?
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That too would be a problem but you could have two one for water and one for Meths.
Re cutting and welding a gas bottle. It's possible to do it quite safely. Did it once before to make an air receiver and I currently have a 50 litre bottle I'm thinking of making into a crud heater.
Just unscrew the fitting ... very tight and sealed with compound, but doable. Then fill with water and empty.
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Hi folk`s, we didn`t have any water when we cut our bottle, we just opened the valve and left it upside down overnight, whole place was stinkin of gas, even though cylinder was empty, you could still smell it inside the cylinder 4 days after we cut it !! Recommend that you do fill with water.
cheers
Will
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Funny you should mention the smell. I left my bottle standing, full of water, for 5 days and emptied it this afternoon. You could still smell "gas" as the water came out.
I don't think you are smelling the gas but an extremely pungent tracer smell added to the gas so it can be detected more easily.
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Does it somehow leech into the metal? Or perhaps form a surface layer on the inside of the cylinder, that water breaks off?
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Ok,job done,heres some piccys if you think there of any use,feel free
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/FPHE001.jpg)
easyflow flux,silver solder,fittings to pressure test,MAPP gas,2 different FPHE,s,fittings
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/FPHE005-1.jpg)
Cleaned up ready to solder ,In a water bath to dissipate the heat
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/FPHE006-1.jpg)
soldering
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/FPHE007.jpg)
Getting ready to pressure test
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/FPHE008.jpg)
The finished articles
Now just one thing,what do i do with them? :)
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Well done Keith, nice work, you did well with that degree of heat sink so close to the joint, must have had the torch running full tilt.
Great set of photos too. A close up of one of the finished joints would just complete the set nicely.
What do you do with them, you mean after you've written the wiki page ... sell them on eaby of course, pressure tested to 12 psi with a nice photo to prove it.
Or, build a GL using them instead of a plumbers delight ... I know what a fan of the GL processor you are!
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I thought God told you to test to 150 bar? HA
Hmmm GL,let me think about it, tempted - NOT
BTW very disappointed with Tone,thought hed of held out for a processor tank
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Julian
Ive used all my silver solder now and i cant remember what i bought,is this suitable for gen purpose?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Silvaflow-Silver-Solder-Rods-1-5mm-Dia-x-600mm-long-55-/110633065940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19c23e9dd4
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Yes, I thought true enthusiasts made all their own kit ... buying a tank is just cheque book engineering! It's probably the shiny blue paint that appeals.
Re silver solder, You used all that on four joints! No wonder the pressure test was ok, you've probably fill the whole HE up!
Not sure on the type you link to, it's been years since I bought any. I still have 10 sticks left, probably quite an investment now they are 7 quid a stick. I'll try and do some delving and see if I can find the details of what I bought originally. I know they were pretty good because they were recommended for making boilers running at 180 psi.
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Did,nt quite use it all but my fingers were getting hot
I wonder if the processor comes in pink?
All very matey,reckon they will be teaming up at the VA,look forward to the Southampton branch opening soon
Are you doing the VA? if not why not?
Dont think my camera likes close ups
2nd Attempt
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/FPHE013.jpg)
(http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/KRH01/FPHE014.jpg)
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There you go, found it ... it was Either Easyflo or Easyflo No 2, both by Johnson Matthey. Easyflo has a slightly higher silver content, flows better and is more expensive. Easyflo No 2 has less silver and hence a slightly lower melting point at around 610°C, is cheaper and will form fillets a bit better than Easyflo.
Both are ok on steel, stainless, brass and copper. Although they recommend a different flux for steel, I've never bothered and have not had any problems.
Ha, just checked JM website and both have been discontinued because they contained Cadmium, shows how old my books are!
The replacement for Easyflow 2 is Silver-flo 55, so I'd recommend that. Axminster do 1.5mm x 600mm for GBP 7.00 inc VAT. http://www.axminster.co.uk/johnson-matthey-silver-flo-55-silver-brazing-alloy-prod23273/?src=froogle
Might get them cheaper if you hunt around.
Pointed nose pliers were designed especially to stop you burning your fingers when silver soldering.
Pink processor ... wouldn't that be great?
Not sure about the VA, my daughter is due home some time in April after two and a half years travelling the Far East and whooping it up in Australia, so I don't want to miss the home coming. Just can't tie her down to any dates at the moment. If I go I'm a bit stuck for a partner, none of my mates are really into that sort of thing and any navigation by the wife culminates in a argument many miles from where we should be. That's why I'm so fond of the lady on my satnav!
There must be a macro setting, even my second hand manky old thing will do close ups. Try fiddling with a few buttons you haven't used previously ... always works for me!
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Cheers,will do
RM could be looking for a partner
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Sounds good, I'll keep it in mind for when I know what my offspring is doing.
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In fact if it's from a Vaillant similar to the one Paul posted, don't buy fittings. I can drill out the spigots to make 15mm sockets which will take the pipe directly ...
(http://www.palmergroup.co.uk/Bio/FPHE drilled for15mm.jpg)
Just let me know how long you want the pipes.
Ooooh ... I feel another wiki page coming on for the benefit of the veg community!
me and next door drilled and tapped one of the above pictures fphe and used banjo's and banjo bolts off old IP pumps + copper washers 8)
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Any pictures Paul?
Could be a new page, I've got the photo you've posted plus this one on the silver soldering page here ... http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/File:Silver_soldered_pipe_connections_on_a_FPHE.png along with Keith's above might be of interest to both vegies and bio boys.
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Ive got a couple more pics,one with small hose tails soldered in and one with the fittings glued in with a special epoxy supplied by Spock
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i will have a look see if the HE is still next door!
also got to take pics of a modded filter to a heated one useing a standard spin on, useing the oil cooler ring off a pug :-X
K.H was part builder on this project! 8)
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drilled and tapped for banjo's and an added bonus the 1x banjo has a bleed off nipple!
note! water at bottom as heat rises...
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8258/dsc00626a.jpg)
(http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/6894/dsc00627wkcg.jpg)
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http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=24722
FPHE-F
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Very neat, like the idea. Must be enough material to put a page together. Veg section hasn't had any new pages for a while.